P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

[William H.]

Hello All,
Have some questions about proper configuration of Power Steering setup on my car. Previous owner transfered PS to his 67 BB and left mine manual. I changed out the Relay rod and Pitman arm and when connecting the pump that was on the car found the return line pointing up and not down. Repaired this and then discovered that the Brackets and Pulley are not what is listed in most places. My rear bracket only bolts to the block in two places at the motor mount and not at the frt of the block. The cradle bracket appears to be correct. I am not sure though as there are two listed and the one in the parts book is the one I don't have. I need the owner of an early build original 65 350 hp w A/C to help with what is on his car. Can somone who has this setup look at my pictures and then at his car and tell me what would be correct? I would also be interested in what the P/S, W/p and Harmonic balancer pulley numbers should be. I have searched the archives to no avail. Here are pictures of what I have. I cant tell much from the AIM as the drawings have changed some. My car was built Nov 20th 1964 Motor stamped F11I0 HU
Thanks in advance
Bill

[Mark G.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

William -


A chart listing '65 pulleys is on this thread.

https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...79720&uid=1084

Mark

[William H.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Ok Thanks
Just trying to figure out if my parts are are original or the result of creative engineering by previous owner. I know he thought us NCRS types were goofy cause a car is only original once. He tended to move things around amoung the 20-30 corvettes he has owned over the years. He passed away a few years ago so I can no longer ask him about it I can only imagine him smiling down on me as I fret over all this! I cannot tell the part numbers of the CS or WP pulleys on the car so maybee Ill take them off to see what is there. Are the part numbers supposed to be acessable with the pulleys on the car? if so can you guide me to where on the WP pulley it is marked?
THanks
Bill

[Joe L.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Hello All,
Have some questions about proper configuration of Power Steering setup on my car. Previous owner transfered PS to his 67 BB and left mine manual. I changed out the Relay rod and Pitman arm and when connecting the pump that was on the car found the return line pointing up and not down. Repaired this and then discovered that the Brackets and Pulley are not what is listed in most places. My rear bracket only bolts to the block in two places at the motor mount and not at the frt of the block. The cradle bracket appears to be correct. I am not sure though as there are two listed and the one in the parts book is the one I don't have. I need the owner of an early build original 65 350 hp w A/C to help with what is on his car. Can somone who has this setup look at my pictures and then at his car and tell me what would be correct? I would also be interested in what the P/S, W/p and Harmonic balancer pulley numbers should be. I have searched the archives to no avail. Here are pictures of what I have. I cant tell much from the AIM as the drawings have changed some. My car was built Nov 20th 1964 Motor stamped F11I0 HU
Thanks in advance
Bill

Bill------


Sorting this one out will be difficult. However, I'll offer a few bits of information:

1) The pump support seen on your pump looks to be generally correct. There were several of these supports used over the years and all are fairly similar;

2) The bracket seen on the back of the pump is not correct. It looks like a big block bracket;

3) The power steering pump pulley shown in your photograph, GM #3860457, is not correct for your application. This pulley is a passenger car pulley, not Corvette. GM says your application should use a GM #3868892. The latter is a RARE pulley. That may be why someone substituted the 3860457;

4) GM says that your waterpump pulley should be a GM #3848904. From what I can see, this looks like what you have, but I can't be sure based on what I can see of it. The number should be stamped on it, though;

5) As far as the balancer pulley goes, I'm not sure. However, I THINK what was used was a GM #3858533 rear 2 groove pulley in combination with a GM #3827843 1 groove front pulley. The 3827843 is a RARE pulley. The 3858533 rear pulley should be stamped with that number or with 3766987. I don't know if the 3827843 is stamped with that number, or not.

Let us know what numbers are on your pullies when you get them off and cleaned up.

[William H.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Thanks Joe

The Wp pulley is 3848904
Belive it or not The bracket on the back of the PS pump did fit but I am not sure about where the pump was because the grooves didn't line up with the CS pulley. I wasnt sure if this was because of the bracket or the Pulley. According to the parts book I am supposed to have the support 3786870 for SP HP with Hyd Lifters
I found one on e bay see attached picture. Do you think it is correct or is the one that I have? It seams like I read somewhere that this one wont clear the Balncer. Ill post the numbers on the CS pullies as soon as I get them off.
Thanks again
Bill

[Joe L.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Thanks Joe

The Wp pulley is 3848904
Belive it or not The bracket on the back of the PS pump did fit but I am not sure about where the pump was because the grooves didn't line up with the CS pulley. I wasnt sure if this was because of the bracket or the Pulley. According to the parts book I am supposed to have the support 3786870 for SP HP with Hyd Lifters
I found one on e bay see attached picture. Do you think it is correct or is the one that I have? It seams like I read somewhere that this one wont clear the Balncer. Ill post the numbers on the CS pullies as soon as I get them off.
Thanks again
Bill

Bill------


I'm not that familiar with the early C2 small block p/s pump supports. It's possible that the one pictured is a 3786870. However, I thought that all had the "hook" style end and the one in your photo does not.

In any event, the bracket shown in your original set of photos is like none that I've ever seen on ANY small block Corvette.

[Tony S.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

As a side point, you'll need the single add-on pulley for the harmonic balancer (in case that got removed). That means you'll have a triple harmonic balancer pulley (a double plus the add-on single).

[William H.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Ok Thanks
Still waiting for someone with an original car to let me know what they have. All this info from the parts books and AIM's is great but I would like to know what really came on someones car.
Thanks
Bill

[Joe L.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Ok Thanks
Still waiting for someone with an original car to let me know what they have. All this info from the parts books and AIM's is great but I would like to know what really came on someones car.
Thanks
Bill

Bill-----


No doubt that empirical information is always the best. However, the problem is that finding someone with a 1965 L-79 with C-60 and N-40 might not be so easy. Even then, how would you know if it's never been "messed with"?

[Zigmont M.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

i have a '65 with factory a/c and power steering, but i do not keep the car at my home. i can let you know what i have tomorrow night!

[Frank D.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

William:

Don't know if this will help, but I am currently replacing my power steering pump on an L-75 with A/C with the three pulley camshaft pulley. This is what my cradle bracket looks like. There are no part numbers stamped on the bracket, only what looks like "WCP" in the bottom of the cradle.

(picture attached)

Frank O'Donnell
Troy, VA

[Mark G.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C


Noland's book indicates L79's w/C60 and N40 with ECL "AD" 175 cars. The '979 and '904 water pump pulleys are very similar.

Mark

[Joe R.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Thanks Joe

The Wp pulley is 3848904
Belive it or not The bracket on the back of the PS pump did fit but I am not sure about where the pump was because the grooves didn't line up with the CS pulley. I wasnt sure if this was because of the bracket or the Pulley. According to the parts book I am supposed to have the support 3786870 for SP HP with Hyd Lifters
I found one on e bay see attached picture. Do you think it is correct or is the one that I have? It seams like I read somewhere that this one wont clear the Balncer. Ill post the numbers on the CS pullies as soon as I get them off.
Thanks again
Bill

Hi Bill:

I don't have access to my files until next week, but I seem to recall that the 8904 WP pulley is a deep groove pulley that was only used when the L79 had A/C *without* PS. I believe that when the L79 had A/C *and* PS, it used the standard-groove pulley set from the 300 HP with A/C and PS.

Based on my research, GM never installed the high performance deep groove pulleys on a C2 small block that had both A/C and PS. The reason, I think, was a marginal clearance situation between the PS pump pulley and the frame kick-up right in front of the pump pulley.

A 327 with A/C and PS has an effective triple pulley on the crank, comprised of a dual groove pulley and a single groove add-on for driving the PS pump. That brings the PS pump pulley pretty far forward. Deep-groove pulleys are about 1/8 inch thicker than standard-groove pulleys, so the difference in the stack-up between a triple standard-groove pulley and a triple deep-groove pulley is 3/8 inch. I think this is why GM decided not to us a triple deep-groove configuration.

I am 99% certain that for 66 and 67, an L79 with both A/C and PS used the standard-groove pulley set. I suspect the same is true for 1965.

If you use a deep-groove WP pulley and the corresponding 3858533 crank pulley on a car with A/C and PS, you will encounter two problems:

1) The normal '1212 (?) standard-groove crank add-on pulley will not fully seat in the 3858533. In fact, from the photo you posted, it looks like the add-on pulley may not be properly seated in the crank pulley.

2) Whatever you use for a crank add-on pulley will not line up with the Corvette PS pump pulley.


I have all the correct pulley numbers for the 66/67 L79 with A/C and PS, and I can get those to you next week. In the meantime, if Mark Gorney reads this, he has the numbers and can post them. I believe Mark published those numbers in a Restorer article about a year ago.

I'm sorry I don't have definitive answers for your 1965 configuration, but I think the 1965 pulleys and brackets were functionally identical to the 66/67 configuration. If you look online at Paragon's 4947K adjustment bracket, that is what I have on my 67. The 66/67 pump cradle is Paragon 4848K, while the 1965 cradle is the 4837. These appear functionally identical, with differences in the bolts used to fasten them to the block.

By the way, it is technically feasible to install a deep-groove pulley set on a small block Corvette that has both A/C and PS. I just completed such a swap on my 67, but the add-on carnk pulley came from a Z28 Camaro and the PS pump pulley came from a GTO. It fits, but the frame clearance is very tight.

[Mark G.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

W/P pulleys,



I believe the L79 used the same pulley configurations as the L76 365hp engine; with the exception of P/S.

Mark

[Joe R.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

W/P pulleys,



I believe the L79 used the same pulley configurations as the L76 365hp engine; with the exception of P/S.

Mark

Hi Mark:

Thanks, this is very interesting. I won't be home until next week, so I can't check my files or compare some sample pulleys to the drawings you attached.

Do you know if the add-on 3827843 crank pulley and the 3868892 pump pulley are deep-groove or standard groove pulleys? In my research I did come up with one combination that used a standard-groove add-on pulley that fit correctly into the 3858533, and a standard-groove pump pulley that lined up pretty well with that combination. However, I was looking at lots of pulleys from several GM cars, and I can't recall the part numbers.

I somehow concluded that the Corvette application never had a full deep-groove pulley set for small blocks equipped with A/C and PS. I identified only two Chevy deep-groove add-on crank pulleys that fit properly into the 3858533 crank pulley. One was an early 60's 409 application and the other was from the 1967 Z28 Camaro.

I hope to look into this further when I get home next week. As I noted earlier, I now have a full deep-groove pulley set on my 67 SB with A/C and PS. I used the 3848904 WP pulley and the 3858533 crank pulley from Corvette applications, but the crank add-on pulley came from a Z28 Camaro and the PS pump pulley came from a GTO (Pontiac part number 9786900, as I recall).