GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

[Richard E.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

Yes it is in the September issue under "corvettes wanted"

[Bruce B.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

Clem, I think you are right they replaced engines. But what if they had replaced the main body and birdcage that involved the VIN tags. Would that be viewed differently?

So my original question still is why is the VIN (as well as trim) on the tag sacred and the VIN on the pad is open to recreation?

I believe tampering with VIN tags is considered a federal or state law violation whereas stamped engine numbers are not addressed since engines are "consumeable" and/or replaceable.

[Bruce B.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

Here is a copy of the ad;


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Chevrolet Corvette mixed










Location: Napoleon, Ohio, United States
(Google Map - Yahoo! Map) Description:

WANTED: GM, Chevrolet and Corvette documentation, attention western Pennsylvania retired archives caretaker, isnt it time? We talked over 10 years ago and you were concerned about the liability from GM (the old GM) that may now be history due to GMs bankruptcy, check with your attorney as you and I are not getting any younger and my one million dollar offer was only a starting point. Email: terry@proteamcorvette.com or write: PO Box 606, Napoleon, OH 43545.

Advertiser Since 1975

[James G.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

The bankruptcy was a reorganization. Assets that were not sold off or abandoned to creditors, would still be property of the "new GM", but with this wrinkle.

One can, however, abandon property, and to know whether GM abandoned these documents would depend on knowing all the facts and circumstances explaining how these documents got from GM's control to where they are today. So the issue is not certain, by any means. No doubt, however, that a "sale" of the documents could give rise to litigation. As a recent example, read the press accounts of the "lost" iPhone 4 and Gizmodo buying it from the finder.

I can only imagine the difficulty in working something out with GM and the other parties involved. Clearly others have done this with documents like the service manuals and AIM that are reproduced with license of GM. Despite the difficulties, that is the prudent way of "acquiring" these documents.

Take a look at CARROLL SHELBY vs. SHELBY AMERICAN AUTOMOBILE CLUB (SAAC) and the lawsuit that happened with them in 2008. Fortunately it all worked out, according to SACC president Amy Boylan.“an agreement was signed, putting behind the turmoil and uncertainty that accompanied this legal conflict as the result of some very hard work by people from both organizations, including Shelby himself and Shelby Automobiles (SACC)."

I have faith that with effort, if these Corvette records exist (and I believe they do somewhere), once released, the Corvette hobby will be a better place

[Wayne M.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

Take a look at CARROLL SHELBY vs. SHELBY AMERICAN AUTOMOBILE CLUB (SAAC) and the lawsuit that happened with them in 2008. Fortunately it all worked out, .....

And what about the GM Pontiac division ? PHS has been releasing data from their '60s cars for what; a decade now ? Any legal problems there ?

[James G.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

And what about the GM Pontiac division ? PHS has been releasing data from their '60s cars for what; a decade now ? Any legal problems there ?

Only problems Jim Mattison has had is when Pontiac cars are sold with a "PHONY COPY" PHS docs. The docs he provides are only a sheet of checked off info, and can be modified easily.

So Jim says if you are looking at a 65 GTO for instance and want to buy it, and the sellers PHS Docs. show 389/348hp with 3x2, 4 sp, air condition etc., you may be surprised when you call for fresh docs today and discover the car was an automatic with one 4 barrell carb when new, and the paperwork was 'created'
I don't think any law suits however..

[Clem Z.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

if they are made available i bet there will be a bidding war between a lot of corvette restorers.

[Ronald L.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

Clem, bidding war? How can that happen?

Original docs to the person that can bear title, right?

[Loren L.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

Maybe Terry wants them for self-defense..........

[Jim C.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

Wow!! This is all very interesting stuff, and with all the facets involved, it's difficult to formulate an opinion. First off, I'm not even sure what type of documents we're talking about. It's all been speculation. Are we discussing delivery data, specific vehicle options (build documents), shipping weight, all of these, none of these? What sort of information are we talking about??? I KNOW FOR SURE that the National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB) has a significant body of delivery data beginning from the early 1960s. I also know that the NICB isn't providing that information to anyone. So what are we talking about? Unless I missed something, Mr. Armstrong said he found no "build documents" in his search. Does that mean that GM simply doesn't have the build documents any more? What about delivery data? What is GM's position on those records? We know that NICB got them at one time.

Initially it seemed that the NCRS had come into some treasure trove of information that pertained to a ten year span of vehicles. Is that information being released by GM to the NCRS? Has the NCRS released any official word on where the records have come from? Now there's some sort of conspiracy theory that appears to say that a former GM employee is possession of some documents that Mr. Michaelis has been trying to obtain. Are these the same documents that the NCRS is touting, or are they different? If a former GM employee does have old records, are they ill gotten? What are the circumstances surrounding them? Are there legal issues involved? That's a whole topic all by itself.

So I ask, why all the mystery? If the NCRS now has documents, why not provide the details, and their source? Knowing that information now isn't going to change the demand for them later. All the secrecy, all the partial information (true or false), all the speculation, only seems to cast a shadow over the documents and their origins. It would be nice to have more KNOWN facts.

Jim C.

[Clem Z.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

Clem, bidding war? How can that happen?

Original docs to the person that can bear title, right?

i think there are some restorers and dealers that would not want those docs available to the public and would pay dearly for them.

[Chris H.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

I agree with Wayne. I know nobody at GM who would care or do anything about vehicle data from the 60's/70's being released. In fact just the opposite. The Heritage Center makes available any data they have at the Heritage Center. Of course the data you want may be in a file drawer somewhere else within GM not known to the Heritage Center.

Unless it was Engineering Documents that stated that aliens designed the 63 Corvette.

Now if they had documents that were legally suppressed that would be different but these sound like vehicle build data.

I am still interested in what is going to be sold by NCRS and how the heck that was done.

[Jack H.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

Maybe Terry wants them for self-defense..........

...or to burn them...did I say that out loud?

[Jim C.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

Again, what documents are we talking about? We really don't know. I'd sure like to have some facts.

[Jim D.]

Re: GM Documentation; T. Michaelis ad (offer) in Hemmings

Maybe Terry wants them for self-defense..........

Or to destroy evidence.