More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

[David L.]

My 1963 Chevrolet Parts Catalog lists GM # 3825686 (in Gr. 5.803) as the steel wheel for the 63 Corvette & 63 Police car. According to Chevrolet Parts History the part number changes were follows:
"3825686 MIX 3834127 1-63"
"3834127 USE 3839814 10-63"
"3839814 USE 3838080 5-66"

I once owned the following used 1963 and 1964 Corvette wheels stamped "15 X 5 1/2 K" along with the following date codes: "1 63" (6 of them), "2 63", "1 64", "2 64", "5 64", "6 64" (or maybe "9 64"???), and believe or not "6 59" (stamping error???). I also one owned a NOS 3839814 wheel dated "3 65".

By the way, has anyone ever seen a 63-64 Corvette wheel dated "6 59"? I saw one at the Carlisle auto show many years ago so I know there are at least 2 of them in this world, stamping error I presume.

NOTE: the "15 X 5 1/2 K" wheel dated "6 59" was a 63-64 Corvette wheel, NOT a 1959 Corvette wheel.

My question is as follows: are the "early" 63 wheels (GM # 3825686) made in the Fall of 1962 EXACTLY THE SAME as the "late" 63 wheels (GM # 3834127) made starting approximately Jan. 1963? I ask this because of the term "MIX" used in the Chevrolet Parts History. I know that Joe Lucia knows something about the terms "MIX" and "USE" and I hope to get his comments.

All my former 3834127 wheels (dated from "1 63" to "5 64") had a 2.78" hub hole diameter. The 3839814 wheels (dated "6 64" or "9 64"??? and "3 65") had a 2.91" hub hole diameter (about 0.13" or about 1/8" larger) as well as a small hole about 1/8" in dia.in one of the "nubs" on the front face of the wheel. From what I understand the 3839814 wheel may have never been installed on the 1964 Corvette assembly line even though the 3839814 wheel appears in my 1964 Chevrolet Parts Catalog (effective Oct. 1963). I guess there were enough of the 3834127 wheels left over to use during the entire 1964 Corvette production. I guess if you bought a 1964 Corvette wheel "over the counter" during the 1964 production it would be the 3839814 wheel.

I also once owned a NOS 3838080 wheel which I believe to be original equipment on 1966 Chevrolet Police cars. The 3838080 rim profile is somewhat similar (but not exactly the same) as the rim profile on a 65-66 Corvette steel wheel (GM # 3869156) which can accommodate disc brakes.

[Joe L.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

My 1963 Chevrolet Parts Catalog lists GM # 3825686 (in Gr. 5.803) as the steel wheel for the 63 Corvette & 63 Police car. According to Chevrolet Parts History the part number changes were follows:
"3825686 MIX 3834127 1-63"
"3834127 USE 3839814 10-63"
"3839814 USE 3838080 5-66"

I once owned the following used 1963 and 1964 Corvette wheels stamped "15 X 5 1/2 K" along with the following date codes: "1 63" (6 of them), "2 63", "1 64", "2 64", "5 64", "6 64" (or maybe "9 64"???), and believe or not "6 59" (stamping error???). I also one owned a NOS 3839814 wheel dated "3 65".

By the way, has anyone ever seen a 63-64 Corvette wheel dated "6 59"? I saw one at the Carlisle auto show many years ago so I know there are at least 2 of them in this world, stamping error I presume.

NOTE: the "15 X 5 1/2 K" wheel dated "6 59" was a 63-64 Corvette wheel, NOT a 1959 Corvette wheel.

My question is as follows: are the "early" 63 wheels (GM # 3825686) made in the Fall of 1962 EXACTLY THE SAME as the "late" 63 wheels (GM # 3834127) made starting approximately Jan. 1963? I ask this because of the term "MIX" used in the Chevrolet Parts History. I know that Joe Lucia knows something about the terms "MIX" and "USE" and I hope to get his comments.

All my former 3834127 wheels (dated from "1 63" to "5 64") had a 2.78" hub hole diameter. The 3839814 wheels (dated "6 64" or "9 64"??? and "3 65") had a 2.91" hub hole diameter (about 0.13" or about 1/8" larger) as well as a small hole about 1/8" in dia.in one of the "nubs" on the front face of the wheel. From what I understand the 3839814 wheel may have never been installed on the 1964 Corvette assembly line even though the 3839814 wheel appears in my 1964 Chevrolet Parts Catalog (effective Oct. 1963). I guess there were enough of the 3834127 wheels left over to use during the entire 1964 Corvette production. I guess if you bought a 1964 Corvette wheel "over the counter" during the 1964 production it would be the 3839814 wheel.

I also once owned a NOS 3838080 wheel which I believe to be original equipment on 1966 Chevrolet Police cars. The 3838080 rim profile is somewhat similar (but not exactly the same) as the rim profile on a 65-66 Corvette steel wheel (GM # 3869156) which can accommodate disc brakes.

Dave------


I know very little regarding the 1963 wheels. In almost all cases, though, if there is a difference in a part number there is some difference in the part (assuming that it's not just a difference in numbers for the same part issued by different GM divisions as I described in another post). In the case you mention, they are both Chevrolet part numbers, so I would surmise that there existed some difference in the wheels.

This may be a case as I also described in the other post in which the wheels were determined to be FORWARD and REARWARD compatible so the term "MIX" was used. That's just a guess, though.

One thing that REALLY surprises me is that the GM #3839814 and 3834127 wheels have a different size center hole. That would make the wheels incompatible for the same applications. Chevrolet wheels, including Corvette, are hub-centric. So, a wheel with a center hole 1/8" larger in OD than the hub could never be reliably centered.

[Timothy B.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

David,

I will go measure the hub hole ID on my 63 rims later today.

All 63 rims I have looked at Carlisle, etc. look the same to me. I wonder if the part # change could have been a longer valve stem or something like that.

From previous post here it's clear the 8080 wheel will not fit the 65-66 cars with disc brake calipers because of the extra step.

[Rick A.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

I will also measure ID of my 1963 wheels and report back

[Jim L.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

One thing that REALLY surprises me is that the GM #3839814 and 3834127 wheels have a different size center hole. That would make the wheels incompatible for the same applications. Chevrolet wheels, including Corvette, are hub-centric. So, a wheel with a center hole 1/8" larger in OD than the hub could never be reliably centered.

Joe,

This doesn't match my observations.

The hub holes in the wheels of my '54 are significantly larger than the hub diameter:




Also, on my '63, the hub is smaller than the wheel hub hole:




In my experience, the C1 and C2 wheels are located by the conical lug nut holes and the conical shape of the lug nuts, not by the hub hole.

Brake drums and rotors, however, are hub-centric.

Jim

[David L.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

The 3825686, 3834127, and 3838080 (replacement) wheels all have a 2.78" diameter hub hole. It is just the 3839814 wheel that has a 2.91" diameter hub hole as well the small 1/8" hole in one of the "nubs" on the front face of the wheel. In previous threads about 63-64 Corvette wheels most all owners of these cars believe that the 3839814 wheel was a "service" wheel even though it appears in the 1964 Chevrolet Parts Catalog (effective Oct. 1963).

According to the 63 Corvette assembly manual the 3825686 wheel was replaced by the 3834127 wheel on 8/29/62 as shown in the revision box so I assume only very early 63 Corvettes were issued the 3825686 wheel. The 64 Corvette assembly manual lists only the 3834127 wheel.

NOTE: I believe that the 3838080 wheel will NOT fit on 65-66 Corvettes w/disc brakes even though it appears that they might. Enclosed is a sketch comparing the 3838080 (replacement 63-64) and 3869156 (65-66) rim profiles.

[Joe L.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

Joe,

This doesn't match my observations.

The hub holes in the wheels of my '54 are significantly larger than the hub diameter:




Also, on my '63, the hub is smaller than the wheel hub hole:




In my experience, the C1 and C2 wheels are located by the conical lug nut holes and the conical shape of the lug nuts, not by the hub hole.

Brake drums and rotors, however, are hub-centric.

Jim

Jim------


It's not that way on a 1969. The hole in the center of the wheel fits snugly to the hubs, both front and rear. See photos below. On 1969 wheels the hubs definitely center the wheels.

The exact same thing had to be the case for, at least, the rear wheels of 1965-68 Corvettes since they used the same rear spindle as 1969-82 and the 1965-68 wheels and 1969-82 wheels all used a 2.783 center hole.

The 63-68 front hubs were smaller than 1969-82. However, I always thought that the section of the front hub where the wheel center hole seated was designed to fit snugly to the wheel center hole. I could be wrong, though.

In any event, it's always been my understanding that all Chevrolet wheels were hub-centric. Certainly, the 1969-82 are hub-centric.

[Wayne M.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

...... The hole in the center of the wheel fits snugly to the hubs, both front and rear. ..... On 1969 wheels the hubs definitely center the wheels.

The exact same thing had to be the case for, at least, the rear wheels of 1965-68 Corvettes since they used the same rear spindle as 1969-82 and the 1965-68 wheels and 1969-82 wheels all used a 2.783 center hole.....

Just measured a '64 drum brake rear spindle hub as well as a '65-up rear disc brake spindle hub and they are both 2.78" dia. I notice in Colvin's '65-69 Chevy-by-the-Numbers book that all steel wheel center holes are 2.783" dia, as mentioned in this thread.

Does anyone have Colvin's CBTN book that covers up to '64, to see what center hole diameters are quoted ?

[Jim L.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

It's not that way on a 1969. The hole in the center of the wheel fits snugly to the hubs, both front and rear. See photos below. On 1969 wheels the hubs definitely center the wheels..

It would be interesting to see whether a feeler gauge could be slipped between the hub and the wheel on a later model, like the '69 in the pictures.

My take is that as long as there is room for the blade of the feeler gauge, the hub isn't doing the centering.

Here is the rear hub on my '63:




Jim

[Dan A.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

Does anyone have Colvin's CBTN book that covers up to '64, to see what center hole diameters are quoted ?

Hi Wayne

The 60-64 Colvin book lists the 63-4 center hole as 2.783 as every one has said. The 60-1 cemter hole is listed as 2.91 buthe 62 is listed as 2.786 for both the 15x5 and the optional 15x5.5 wheel.

Colvins 55-59 book lists57-59 15x5 as 2.91 nad 15x5.5 as 2.786. THe 55-56 Covett3e steel wheels are listed as 2 29/32 for the 15x5s.

[Joe L.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

It would be interesting to see whether a feeler gauge could be slipped between the hub and the wheel on a later model, like the '69 in the pictures.

My take is that as long as there is room for the blade of the feeler gauge, the hub isn't doing the centering.

Here is the rear hub on my '63:





Jim

Jim-----


The thinnest feel gauge I have in the set that was easiest for me to find is .008". There's no way that it will fit between the hub and the wheel hole for either the front or the rear. I don't think that even a thinner gauge would fit for the rear. A thinner gauge might fit for the front

Whether or not a feeler gauge would fit, there has to be some sort of tolerance for centering and I expect it's more than .001" for a PRODUCTION type vehicle. So, even if there is some clearance between the hub and the wheel hole, I still think the hub could be the centering device.

For lug-centric situations, it would seem to me that over time wear of the wheel lug bolt holes and wear of the lug nuts would create very problematic circumstances for wheel centering.

[Wayne M.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

Hi Wayne

The 60-64 Colvin book lists the 63-4 center hole as 2.783 as every one has said. The 60-1 cemter hole is listed as 2.91 buthe 62 is listed as 2.786 for both the 15x5 and the optional 15x5.5 wheel.

Colvins 55-59 book lists 57-59 15x5 as 2.91 nad 15x5.5 as 2.786. THe 55-56 Covett3e steel wheels are listed as 2 29/32 for the 15x5s.

Good stuff, Dan

What does everyone think of this center hole ? Five contact spots [pentagon shape] to spindle hub (tried it on a disc brake hub); obviously hub-centric. This is on a 15" RF coded Kelsey Hayes rim stamped K-2 9 (valve hole) 5. I'm guessing 1979 GM product.

[Tracy C.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

Hi Wayne

The 60-64 Colvin book lists the 63-4 center hole as 2.783 as every one has said. The 60-1 cemter hole is listed as 2.91 buthe 62 is listed as 2.786 for both the 15x5 and the optional 15x5.5 wheel.

Colvins 55-59 book lists57-59 15x5 as 2.91 nad 15x5.5 as 2.786. THe 55-56 Covett3e steel wheels are listed as 2 29/32 for the 15x5s.

Very curious...

I've alway thought the 56 - 62 front wheel hub centers were larger than 63 - up. How would a 5.5 wide wheel with a center hole within .003 of the 63 up wheels fit properly on the fronts of these cars?

[Tracy C.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

Hi Wayne

The 60-64 Colvin book lists the 63-4 center hole as 2.783 as every one has said. The 60-1 cemter hole is listed as 2.91 buthe 62 is listed as 2.786 for both the 15x5 and the optional 15x5.5 wheel.

Colvins 55-59 book lists57-59 15x5 as 2.91 nad 15x5.5 as 2.786. THe 55-56 Covett3e steel wheels are listed as 2 29/32 for the 15x5s.

Very curious...

I've alway thought the 56 - 62 front wheel hub centers were larger than 63 - up. How would a 5.5 wide wheel with a center hole within .003 of the 63 up wheels fit properly on the fronts of these cars?

[David L.]

Re: More about 63-64 Corvette steel wheels

There is a 1963 Corvette 15" X 5 1/2" wheel currently on Ebay (auction # 300521945793) dated "6 63" and it has a green Kelsey-Hayes sticker with the following:

"X-40040" (industry number)
"15 X 5.5" (size of wheel)
"KH-49494" (Kelsey-Hayes part number)

There is also a small 1/8"+/- hole in one of the "nubs" (or "bumps"). I would say this wheel was sold by Kelsey-Hayes to a local tire stores and not a Chevrolet dealer since there is a Kelsey-Hayes sticker instead of a GM part number sticker.

I have bought wheels at tire stores and they have a K-H sticker. The wheels sold by the Chevrolet dealer have a GM part number. The wheels installed on the assembly line do not have any sticker.

I have emailed the seller asking if the hub diameter is 2.78" or 2.91". My guess is that is 2.91" because of the 1/8" small hole. I believe that this wheel is GM #3839814 as shown in my 1964 Chevrolet Parts Catalog (effective Oct. 1963). If Chevrolet is selling the 3839814 wheel (2.91" hub hole) over the counter starting about Jan. 1963 (Chevrolet Parts History) then I would think that Kelsey-Hayes would be selling the same wheel to the local tire stores but supplying the Corvette assembly line with the 3834127 wheel (2.78" hub hole). Does that make any sense?

One other point that I forgot to make.
The 1957-1962 Corvette wheel w/RPO 276 (GM# 3748348) was replaced with the 3839814 wheel in Aug. 1965. Doesn't the 3748348 wheel have a 2.91" hub hole just like the standard 15" X 5" wheels used on 53-62 Corvettes?