I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

[Duke W.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

All we have is a photo of a Flint stamp pad. How about the year and engine option? It's probably not considered "counterfeit".

Get you feet back on the ground and cool off before you shove the whole thing off a cliff. Guys have received Top Flight awards with a total loss of points for the stamp pad surface and stampings.

Duke

[Tracy C.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

...

Am I wasting my time now to even consider having the car judged?
.....
If I read the the 8th addition of the Judging Reference Manual correctly, one example of restoration that is not considered counterfeiting is "stamping a 435-HP block to conform to the date/serial number of the original 435-HP Corvette in which it is to be installed". Does this mean that restamping is acceptable as long as you are not trying to make the car something it never was?


Don

Don,

If the engine configuration following restoration represents what the car originally came with, it is not counterfiting. You can still Top Flight with a restamp block. Read the section on judging the engine in the 8th edition and verify you have the right case that is correctly dated within the 6 month window. If yes, then the broach marks, Assy stamp and Vin stamp all judge separately and score independantly of one another.

tc

[Lawrence M.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

WOW...#38305. Is this a "last day" production '69??? Very neat. What is the build date of the car???

Not the last day. Build day is Q15 December 15, 1969 a Monday. 1969 production went to 38762 and ended on Friday of that week. At Bloomington Gold last week I saw a very nice Fathom Green 69 coupe parked near the judging field that if I remember correctly was 38467. Built the same day or maybe the next day after mine. It was a small block like mine. I'd love to talk to the owner and compare cars.

[Joe L.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

I though I had a correctly stamped original engine. I had used this forum a while back to get some opinions of my engine pad and all felt it was a correct stamp. Of course, the pictures were of the engine in the car and some paint on the pad, so they were not the best.

I got my engine back from the machine shop last week. I have a friend of a friend who is rebuilding the engine with me. He did most of the dealing with the machine shop. So last night he came over to start the rebuild, and in passing he mentioned that the machine shop guy said "you do know that this engine has been restamped". So my questions were, what did he see that would give him that opinion. The builder is a corvette guy, but not into the numbers, so the only thing he said was that the machine shop guy said there were two stamps. I don't really want to call the machine shop guy and quiz him, he's not the most customer friendly person I have ever met.

I have looked and looked at all angles and can't see any other stamp image. I'm so new at this that of course I would not bet anything on what I know or see.

I have attached a picture. My eyes may be fooling me, but I think I can see broach marks all the way through the pad. There are some scratch marks across the stamping, but I took those to be where someone had scratched the paint off to get a better look at the pad. As I said, when I got the car, it had some paint on the pad.

Can someone either bum me out more, or give me some encouragement.

Thanks,

Don

Don------


I usually don't get too much into these stamp pad issues. However, I would agree with all the others; I don't think this is an original stamping. There are way too many "discrepancies".

[Paul J.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

It would have been nice for the machine shop to have raised the issue earlier before I spent a lot of extra money to "save the original engine". Since it had already been bored twice the engine builder suggested and I agreed to go to .080 over which meant custom pistons, and all new internals, rods, cam, lifters, etc. etc. etc.!!

Am I wasting my time now to even consider having the car judged?
I bought the car originally to have a good quality driver, but because so much else was wrong with it I ended up doing a full frame off. As a beginner and nieve to think that a collector selling this car would be honest in presenting what the car was, so I got screwed!

So was considering going through judging. But if a restamp is considered a counterfeit then I will just live with a extremely high quality driver.

If I read the the 8th addition of the Judging Reference Manual correctly, one example of restoration that is not considered counterfeiting is "stamping a 435-HP block to conform to the date/serial number of the original 435-HP Corvette in which it is to be installed". Does this mean that restamping is acceptable as long as you are not trying to make the car something it never was?


Don

Jack and Tracy are right. You're making the distinction between "restoration" and "counterfeit". As I understand it, it's OK to put it back like it was when it left the factory, including the stamp. As for originality, you don't know if the block is original or not, you just know that it's probably a restamp.

As for your situation, walk away from this for a little bit and don't get too upset. Life's too short. You might want to get a professional opinion on whether or not the pad can be ground just enough to take most of the curved broach marks out, and new ones added. The stamp would still be readable. That is, if you want to put more money into it.

[Greg S.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

If flight judging is your goal you can figure on losing 38 points if the pad broach marks are called. This is all you will lose assuming all other date parameters are in sync. You can lose about 275 points and still get a top flight. 38 points is not the end of the world.

If you want to be able to say that the car has the orginal engine for bragging rights, you might want to sell the car.

Personally, I don't put much faith in original claims unless the written documentation traces the car back to birth and then would hesitate.

[Dick W.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Interesting thing about the pad, when I enlarged the photo up 500%, the circular marks end just behind the stamp, and you can see what look like broach marks between the stamp and the front of the machined surface.

[Brian M.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

I can't believe he didn't remove the paint.

i can't believe that the guys doing this do not at least pull the head to make the brotch marks look a little bit correct.

[Ronald L.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

This curvature and ending of the broach marks at the head joint line are very typical of Slick Willie's stamping service; not to mention aforementioned font differences.

Put a straight edge along this area from cylinder to edge, is this area angled down ever so slightly? If yes, definitely modified.

If the casting dates are spot on, you have data that could get this put correct and then you said it, the machine shop owner's not the friendliest. In that case, don't go back there to fix this, find someone else.

[Donald H.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Ok, I not quite as bummed out now. The block is a correct casting and the casting date is October 59 and the car was assembled mid November 59.

The heads are correct casting and casting dates of October 59 also.

[Gene M.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Donald,
Whenever an owner discovers that the pad stamping is not original (as in a restamp) it is not something that presents a good feeling. The original pad will always be the summit of total personal satisfaction. A restamp will always be a cheap deception imitation of the real thing. Even if the goal is only points.

Being the purchaser of an undisclosed restamp just plain sucks. I can understand your disappointment.

[Clark K.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

Get you feet back on the ground and cool off before you shove the whole thing off a cliff. Guys have received Top Flight awards with a total loss of points for the stamp pad surface and stampings. Duke

I agree with Duke. If your stamp pad has been restamped, it will incur an originality deduction which is not the end of the world. Stamping is worth 25 originality points (no condition pts.). The stamp pad surface finish is worth 38 originality points (no condition pts.). That is 63 pts. deductions if both these items are judged to be "NTFP".

My car had its engine rebuilt in 1989 by an apparent ham-fisted machinist (confirmed by the owner at the time) who cared nothing for preserving the stamp pad surface for future NCRS judging. So, when the shop rebuilt the engine, they scratched the stamp pad. These NTFP scratches send the NCRS Mechanical Team judges into high gear.

IMO, only if you sell the car and fail to disclose the information that has come to light, will there be a "foul". Shame on the guy who sold the car to you without this disclosure. -Clark

[Clem Z.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

i do not understand all the concern if you bought the car to enjoy it for what it is a CORVETTE !!!!

[Charles P.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

You have supplied an excellent digital image. I may be seeing Mickey Mouse in the clouds but using my Mac and under extreme magnification I can almost make out 132 in a smaller font under this stamp.

[Gene M.]

Re: I'm really getting bummed out!!!!!

i do not understand all the concern if you bought the car to enjoy it for what it is a CORVETTE !!!!

In full agreement about the enjoyment factor. But with a fake "original" stamping he may have purchased the car for a lot less money.

The art of illusion is sometimes taken too far. When ever the "numbers are messed around with" someone will end out on the short end because somewhere along the line it becomes sold as original.