Engine Paint Help

[Joe L.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Anybody got any thoughts on the finish

Jerry------

I don't think the color is exactly right but it's a lot closer than the Bill Hirsch Chevrolet orange I'm familiar with. I guess they have reformulated their paint since I got some. The one I got was "pinkish".

The gloss level is about right, though.

[Joe L.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

I agree.

There was a definite difference between small block and big block orange paint for 1965. Small block for 62 to about 65 was very orange while big block 65-66 was more of a carrot color.

Several years ago, I had two NOS 6 quart small block oil pans for 63-65. One was in the old brown GM box used in the early 60's and the other was in the white with blue printing box used probably some time after the mid 60's and beyond. If I remember correctly, the receipt in the box was dated 1969? The paint on the pan from the old box was defintely the correct orange for the 62-65 era while the later pan was more of a red color, typical of what was seen on 66 and later small blocks. Very distinct difference between the two. I learned that we can't assume that paint on NOS parts made a decade after the model year are anywhere near correct.

I also learned that we can't always go by the color of NOS engine components though. I had an NOS 65 (only) big block timing chain cover in the box and it was way too red to be even close to ANY original 65 big block engine color.
It's possible that some new service components like this were painted elsewhere instead of at the engine plant.

I have a few original engine pieces that were removed from brand new 63's that definitely show the color as being more toward the orange side.

By the way, the official name for the color that GM used was Moly Orange. It's probably still available in quarts at your local paint supplier. That wouldn't be a guarantee that the color would be exactly the same as one of the "Moly Orange" paints that the engine plants used though. It would be a much better choice than most of the rattle can paints on the market because most spray can paints contain a large percentage of clear/binder. The clear/binder is what makes spray can paint look too glossy.

Michael------


I do not recollect that the 62-65 were very orange. I recollect them as having a lot of red in them. I remember this pretty well since I can recall when the new steel valve covers came out for the 327's in 1962. I just loved the look of these valve covers and the much more reddish color they and the rest of the engine were painted. Previously, I always thought the Chevrolet orange looked "Halloweeny" but the more reddish color looked very "sophisticated".

My recollection is that color remained just about through the period in which those valve covers were used, 1965, and maybe into 1966. Afterwards, it was back to the "Halloweeny" orange. A little more red returned in 1968 or 1969, but nowhere near as red as my recollection of the 62-65 SB.

I suppose it's also possible there was variation in the color due to the 12 paint suppliers that John mentioned.

I think the painted SERVICE timing covers and oil pans occurred sometime in the late 60's to, possibly, early 70's. I don't know why this happened but it may have been due to rusting of SERVICE parts and customer complaints thereby generated. However, I don't think that any of these parts were painted at the engine plants since I don't think such SERVICE parts ever passed through any GM engine plant. Much more likely, the parts were painted at their manufacturing source or by some subsequent vendor. I don't think that any engine "tin" parts were ever manufactured at GM engine plants.

[Joe L.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Here is a photo of an original valve cover from my 1969 350/300. These covers were removed from the engine when the car was about 1 year old and replaced with the 350/350 aluminum valve covers.

Note the amount of red in the Chevrolet orange. My recollection is that the 62-65 and, maybe into 1966, had a lot more red in it than this.

[Michael H.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Joe,

To me, the color on your valve cover appears more red than the orange that I remember from the 62-65 era.

Below is a picture of an engine that was purchased as a complete 340 HP engine assembly from GM in early 1963. It was painted dark grey over the original orange and installed in a Ferrari. It was driven about 200 miles the first week and then parked, never to be run again. Fourty years later, areas where the grey coating has flaked off show what the original color was/is. It appears much more orange than the color on your valve cover. This is exactly the color that I remember from the 62-65 era.
(I have no idea how someone was able to purchase a new 340 HP engine assembly as it was never officially available in service, but this one was. Note the lack of a VIN stamp on the pad)

[Domenic T.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Here are some pics of the rustolium engine enamel over the rustolium primer on my 67/435.

Forget the finish on my intake, that's the way I wanted it, dirt & grease proof, also I moved the battery to the left side when I added factory air which was not available for the 435.

DOM

[Joe L.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Does anyone out there have an original 62-65 Corvette, preferably a 250 or 300 hp with stamped steel valve covers, for which they believe the engine paint is original to the car? If so, it would be nice to see some photos of the engines.

[Scott S.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Has anyone here tried the engine paint formula in Lars Grimsrud's Technical Information Bulletins?


"4. On to the engine. I see guys with nice ‘Vettes using paint out of a cheap spray can that they bought at the local parts store. People with nice ‘Vettes who use spray can paint on their engines should be charged with Vette-abuse, and sentenced to restore Honda Civics for life. If you want your engine to look perfect, to be the perfect, correct color, and to have a durable, lasting finish and shine, you want to shoot it with Delstar catalyzed urethane enamel. Here is the factory-correct color code and the whole mixing formula:

PPG Delstar Chevy Engine Orange, DAR #60524 H
Mixing Formula (1 qt, cumulative):

Color . . . . . . . . . . . . . Units (cumulative)
DMR 400 . . . . . . . . . . 4.0
DMR 405 . . . . . . . . . . 160
DMR 464 . . . . . . . . . . 660
DXR 495 . . . . . . . . . . 680
DMR 499 . . . . . . . . . . 1250

Mix the paint 8:6:1 Delstar/DTR601 Reducer/DXR80 Catalyst and shoot it with a paint gun. If you have a new engine back from the machine shop and it’s bare metal, prime the entire engine, block, heads, etc. with PPG DP40LF Epoxy Primer mixed 2:1 with DP402LF Catalyst. You won’t believe how good it will look.

As always, contact me if you need any assistance or if you have any questions."


I think this bulletin was from 2007 or earlier, and was available on Barry Kimmelman's Corvette website (may still be there).

[Joe L.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

[quote=Scott Smith (50839);575711][quote]

Scott------

I'm sure it will look quite good. But, I strongly suspect it won't look like it originally did. For one thing, when an engine is primed before the top coat is applied, the result is almost inevitably a finish that's too "thick looking" and smooth to be anything like the original factory paint job.

I also disagree that an engine cannot be acceptably painted using a spray can. It depends on the quality of the paint used and not the fact that it's applied with a spray can. The original paint used on the engines was a simple and, likely, inexpensive enamel or lacquer. The paints available today in spray cans are probably superior in many ways to the original paint.

Using a paint that is the correct original color and degree of gloss, even if applied with a spray can, will result in a finish that appears identical to the original factory finish. Plus, if a high quality paint is used, it will be as durable or more durable than the factory finish.

[Michael H.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Has anyone here tried the engine paint formula in Lars Grimsrud's Technical Information Bulletins?


"4. On to the engine.PPG Delstar Chevy Engine Orange, DAR #60524 H

Scott,

That sounds like a good plan but here's the problem. Just because a paint supplier has a formula for Chevrolet/moly orange doesn't necessarily mean the color will be accurate. Each supplier has it's own mixing foemula and it's not likely that any two will be the same.
A good example of this is Marlboro maroon body color for 67. All of the suppliers made the color according to their charts but none ever came close, and they were all different.

For a good example of the variety of opinions on just exactly what moly orange should look like, go to Google, select images and enter moly orange. There's quite a variety of different colors.

Years ago, I painted the most recent engine that went into the 12 mile 67 L88 coupe. I spent a lot of time coming up with a color that looked correct but even then, it still wasn't deadly accurate. The color changed from can to can, even though I had it custom mixed by a good friend that mixed it very carefully.

By the way, I don't like to prime engines before painting.

[Jim D.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Does anyone out there have an original 62-65 Corvette, preferably a 250 or 300 hp with stamped steel valve covers, for which they believe the engine paint is original to the car? If so, it would be nice to see some photos of the engines.

Here ya go Joe. 65, 300HP, 1 owner, the valve covers have never been removed since it left the factory. I have plenty of pics. of all the original crayon markings on the heads etc.

[Michael H.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Here ya go Joe. 65, 300HP, 1 owner, the valve covers have never been removed since it left the factory. I have plenty of pics. of all the original crayon markings on the heads etc.

That looks very orange, just like the color on the engine that I posted earlier. Thanks.

[Joe L.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Here ya go Joe. 65, 300HP, 1 owner, the valve covers have never been removed since it left the factory. I have plenty of pics. of all the original crayon markings on the heads etc.

Jim------


Thanks very much. This has less red in it than I recollect but there may have been variation as has been previously discussed. Hopefully, we'll get some more pix of engines over the 62-65 period.

In any event, there's a lot more red in your Chevrolet orange than will be found in most of the Chevrolet orange paints available today.

[James W.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Does anyone out there have an original 62-65 Corvette, preferably a 250 or 300 hp with stamped steel valve covers, for which they believe the engine paint is original to the car? If so, it would be nice to see some photos of the engines.

Joe,

Here is my 1964 327/300 convertible bought back in 1980. The car had been rode hard but 95 percent original. The car at that time had approximately 85k miles on it. Sorry but the camera I had at that time was junk. I have a better picture that is a TIf file but I can not upload.

Regards,

James West

[Joe L.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Joe,

Here is my 1964 327/300 convertible bought back in 1980. The car had been rode hard but 95 percent original. The car at that time had approximately 85k miles on it. Sorry but the camera I had at that time was junk. I have a better picture that is a TIf file but I can not upload.

Regards,

James West

James-----


Thanks very much. This one looks to be very orange, maybe even a bit more orange than Jim Durham's 65.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

What I have found was that if you prime engines before painting you use LESS paint & primer overall.

It lets the casting look sharper. If you try loading the finish up to get coverage without primer you use more paint because of the lack of pigment.

The paint job without primer can also look great but you use more paint.

That's one of the things primer is for, you use Less paint and get a longer lasting job.

Again, it's a choice of how you want it to look and last.

The factory only covered it enough to look OK when it was new. That is EASY to do if that is what you want and if you have the time to do it over after a while.

DOM