Engine Paint Help

[Rob M.]

Through archival research I can see that there are as many opinions as to what the "correct/closest" engine orange paint is as there are threads

It appears that Quanta has a slight edge as the preferred paint. I have also learned that Quanta's engine orange is Seymour re-labeled - can anyone confirm this? If so, is it Seymour's 16-1048?

Finally, do any of the major retail store's carry it (Napa, Pep Boys, Home Depot, etc.)? Don't have the time to wait for shipping and don't want to pay more in shipping than the cost of the paint.

Thanks in advance!

[Domenic T.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Rob,
Also take a look at Rustolium, they have engine paints now.

I used their regular paint on non resto engines for years and it did better than the other rattle can engine enamels.

Does a good job with heat.

DOM

[Joe L.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Through archival research I can see that there are as many opinions as to what the "correct/closest" engine orange paint is as there are threads

It appears that Quanta has a slight edge as the preferred paint. I have also learned that Quanta's engine orange is Seymour re-labeled - can anyone confirm this? If so, is it Seymour's 16-1048?

Finally, do any of the major retail store's carry it (Napa, Pep Boys, Home Depot, etc.)? Don't have the time to wait for shipping and don't want to pay more in shipping than the cost of the paint.

Thanks in advance!

Rob-------


As I've mentioned to you previously, one of the big problems with engine paints today is that most of them are HIGH GLOSS. The original engine paints used on Chevrolet engines was definitely NOT high gloss. In fact, I would describe it as a low gloss----not a flat, of course, but certainly low gloss.

Most of the paints I've seen and tested were WAY too glossy. In addition, most of the paint I've seen on the engines of restored cars is way too glossy, too.

Bill Hirsch paints used to have about the right gloss level but, in my opinion, their color match was WAY OFF for any year Corvette engine. However, I see that Bill Hirsch Automotive now advertises their engine paint as "high gloss". If that means what it says, it'll be too glossy now.

As I also communicated to you previously, Corvette small blocks in about the 62-66 period were an orange with a lot of red in it. After about that time, they got more orange, but still with a lot of red in it through at least about 1972.

The closest match I ever tested for the 62-66 Chevrolet orange was a brand called Aervoe. While Aervoe is definitely still in business, I don't think they manufacture engine enamels anymore. I think they've "drifted off" into the industrial paint market. The Aervoe Chevrolet orange was just about the right color for 62-66 and also just about the right gloss level.

Some of the others out there, including Seymour, have the 67+ Chevrolet engine orange COLOR about right, but they're still way too glossy.

I'll repeat something here: no Chevrolet engine ever originally used a high gloss engine enamel. NONE. PERIOD.

[Keith B.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

I recently had an opportunity to have an original set of 1967 big block valve covers that were removed very early in the cars life sent to me for color matching. I tested the color against several brands of paint. I looked at Quanta, duplicolor and finally paint from Long Island. The Long Island paint was dead on. I had several others look at the Long Island sample. We were in direct sun and we were able to lay the samples next to each other and walk 360 degrees around the parts. The sheen was also correct but it was sprayed fairly dry. I was going to pay extra money to have the paint custom mixed. Decided to save the money. The valve covers had far more paint than my car but they were exact matches. Here is a picture of my Benchmark big block original valve covers. Not much sheen.

[Joe L.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

I recently had an opportunity to have an original set of 1967 big block valve covers that were removed very early in the cars life sent to me for color matching. I tested the color against several brands of paint. I looked at Quanta, duplicolor and finally paint from Long Island. The Long Island paint was dead on. I had several others look at the Long Island sample. We were in direct sun and we were able to lay the samples next to each other and walk 360 degrees around the parts. The sheen was also correct but it was sprayed fairly dry. I was going to pay extra money to have the paint custom mixed. Decided to save the money. The valve covers had far more paint than my car but they were exact matches. Here is a picture of my Benchmark big block original valve covers. Not much sheen.

Keith-----


I've always believed that the paint supplier to Tonawanda must have been different than the one for Flint, at least for the 65-66 model years. Big blocks always had more orange in the color than 62-66 small blocks, although pretty similar to 67+ small blocks.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Rob,
I'm about to run out for the day but would like to say one thing.

I think the biggest decision will be, are you going to make the same mistakes they did when they painted the engines at the factory?

More people than judges will look at your work.

DOM

[John H.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

I've always believed that the paint supplier to Tonawanda must have been different than the one for Flint, at least for the 65-66 model years. Big blocks always had more orange in the color than 62-66 small blocks, although pretty similar to 67+ small blocks.

Joe -

Ken Kayser (who was the Master Mechanic at both engine plants) mentioned during his engine presentation at the Novi National Convention that there were twelve different suppliers for engine paint. Knowing how Chevrolet operated in those days, I'm sure they changed paint suppliers when a different one came in with a more competitive price.

[Rob M.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Thanks to all.

I've tried to find one that comes close. I've sprayed some (4) samples to compare and it looks like Quanta is close (not too orange and less gloss than the others, but probably too glossy). I sprayed Quanta, Bowmann (Paragon's re-labeled), Dupli-Color 1620, and 1607. I couldn't find Seymour locally, but I hear it's good and might be what Quanta labels.

I would like to see how the Aevroe compares, but it looks like they sell by the case (not what I need) and the closest supplier that I can find is a long drive away (spend more in gas than the paint!).

I don't know, like John says there were 12 suppliers of paint . . . I guess the odds are in my favor of coming close.

[Michael H.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Joe -

Ken Kayser (who was the Master Mechanic at both engine plants) mentioned during his engine presentation at the Novi National Convention that there were twelve different suppliers for engine paint. Knowing how Chevrolet operated in those days, I'm sure they changed paint suppliers when a different one came in with a more competitive price.

I agree.

There was a definite difference between small block and big block orange paint for 1965. Small block for 62 to about 65 was very orange while big block 65-66 was more of a carrot color.

Several years ago, I had two NOS 6 quart small block oil pans for 63-65. One was in the old brown GM box used in the early 60's and the other was in the white with blue printing box used probably some time after the mid 60's and beyond. If I remember correctly, the receipt in the box was dated 1969? The paint on the pan from the old box was defintely the correct orange for the 62-65 era while the later pan was more of a red color, typical of what was seen on 66 and later small blocks. Very distinct difference between the two. I learned that we can't assume that paint on NOS parts made a decade after the model year are anywhere near correct.

I also learned that we can't always go by the color of NOS engine components though. I had an NOS 65 (only) big block timing chain cover in the box and it was way too red to be even close to ANY original 65 big block engine color.
It's possible that some new service components like this were painted elsewhere instead of at the engine plant.

I have a few original engine pieces that were removed from brand new 63's that definitely show the color as being more toward the orange side.

By the way, the official name for the color that GM used was Moly Orange. It's probably still available in quarts at your local paint supplier. That wouldn't be a guarantee that the color would be exactly the same as one of the "Moly Orange" paints that the engine plants used though. It would be a much better choice than most of the rattle can paints on the market because most spray can paints contain a large percentage of clear/binder. The clear/binder is what makes spray can paint look too glossy.

[Dick W.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

I think that John Hinckley's comments summed it all up, there is NO ONE COLOR that is correct for all of production.

I have had very good luck with paint that PPG mixed for me. They have an eninge red/orange, what ever, that is already flattened somewhat and looks very good. Never had a complaint, from judges, on engine that we painted. Now owners are another story. "It ain't glossy enuff", "I don't want paint on the intake".

[Dennis D.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

a bunch of years back I used http://www.hirschauto.com/ The sheen level was good but color a bit pink. Long time paint supplier excellent products

[James W.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Through archival research I can see that there are as many opinions as to what the "correct/closest" engine orange paint is as there are threads

It appears that Quanta has a slight edge as the preferred paint. I have also learned that Quanta's engine orange is Seymour re-labeled - can anyone confirm this? If so, is it Seymour's 16-1048?

Finally, do any of the major retail store's carry it (Napa, Pep Boys, Home Depot, etc.)? Don't have the time to wait for shipping and don't want to pay more in shipping than the cost of the paint.

Thanks in advance!

Rob,

Here is a picture of the '65 big block painted with the Bill Hersh Chevrolet Orange. Not sure how it will judge but it is what it is.

Regards,

James West

[Michael M.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Not sure if this GM part number is still available. The GM part number is # 1052437, Group # 8.800. I purchased a case years ago and have had good results. The color is not to glossy as long as you apply the paint in dry coats. Even though the can says the color (Red) it is definitely Chevy Orange.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

I agree.

There was a definite difference between small block and big block orange paint for 1965. Small block for 62 to about 65 was very orange while big block 65-66 was more of a carrot color.

Several years ago, I had two NOS 6 quart small block oil pans for 63-65. One was in the old brown GM box used in the early 60's and the other was in the white with blue printing box used probably some time after the mid 60's and beyond. If I remember correctly, the receipt in the box was dated 1969? The paint on the pan from the old box was defintely the correct orange for the 62-65 era while the later pan was more of a red color, typical of what was seen on 66 and later small blocks. Very distinct difference between the two. I learned that we can't assume that paint on NOS parts made a decade after the model year are anywhere near correct.

I also learned that we can't always go by the color of NOS engine components though. I had an NOS 65 (only) big block timing chain cover in the box and it was way too red to be even close to ANY original 65 big block engine color.
It's possible that some new service components like this were painted elsewhere instead of at the engine plant.

I have a few original engine pieces that were removed from brand new 63's that definitely show the color as being more toward the orange side.

By the way, the official name for the color that GM used was Moly Orange. It's probably still available in quarts at your local paint supplier. That wouldn't be a guarantee that the color would be exactly the same as one of the "Moly Orange" paints that the engine plants used though. It would be a much better choice than most of the rattle can paints on the market because most spray can paints contain a large percentage of clear/binder. The clear/binder is what makes spray can paint look too glossy.

Michael,

You were lucky to get paint on a part that was in a box.

In CA all the chevy parts were bare, even the engine long blocks.

In 1970 the service manager at Barnett Chevrolet threatened to fire me if I checked any more paint out for a warrantee job.

He said we were not painters, we were mechanics.

As I remember all our parts were bare.

I couldn't stand it when I saw a new car with unpainted parts , especially a bare block under its original painted heads.

I still painted all the bare parts and eventually lost my job because I was fed most of the warrantee work that did not pay as good as customer pay work.

DOM

[Jerome P.]

Re: Engine Paint Help

Rob,

Here is a picture of the '65 big block painted with the Bill Hersh Chevrolet Orange. Not sure how it will judge but it is what it is.

Regards,

James West

Anybody got any thoughts on the finish