Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

[Jim L.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Peter,

Clear something up, please. In your original post you noted that the wheel repeatedly loosened. Farther down in posting #23, I get the feeling you are having trouble loosening the wheel. Can you clear up this seemingly contradictory set of symptoms?

Jim

[Peter N.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Hi folks, after breaking a tiny drill bit but busting up the pin a tad, some local driving & a couple of hours of pounding I finally got the spinner loose. I utilized several of u'r suggestions to accomplish this...a big hearty thanks.

Well, here's what lies underneath. Can u now provide insights on why this thing keeps wanting to come off & kill me? Or do I need to remove the wheel so u can see more?

Thanks to all who have been sticking with me on this.

Peter,Clear something up, please. In your original post you noted that the wheel repeatedly loosened. Farther down in posting #23, I get the feeling you are having trouble loosening the wheel. Can you clear up this seemingly contradictory set of symptoms?
Jim

Ah...the esteemed inventor of the ultimate spinner remover! I thought for sure I was gonna have to copy u'r tool. Jim.

This wheel came w/in seconds of coming off while driving 55 mph in FL. When arriving at r destination, we saw that he hub cap & pin were missing, & the spinner was so loose it was barely on. See here for more info ...post #3 is a good starting point. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...ock-off-q.html

Since getting the car here in Calif., I constantly checked it. Before driving it one morning, I touched the hub cap & it fell off, that revealed the pin stuck in a gap where it didn't belong, See the pics in Post 1 & 18. When I asked here for advice, folks wanted to know how the wheel was mounted, which I had no idea of. In attempting to remove the spinner so we could see what was underneath, I encountered the problem that I couldn't get the damn thing off!....hope that clears it up for ya...if not, feel free to ask.

[Bob G.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Hope this helps..just my experience with both KH knocks and western "pin" replacements. 15 years+
1) no lubricant on the threads...really important.
2) wheels cannot be tightened properly with a load on the suspension. Jack the car up enough to take the major weight off the tire/wheel. Hit with the normal KO hammer. When tight you will hear a definitive 'ringing" through the suspension every time. You are done. Let the wheel down. If you want to drive a bit and re-check to make your self feel more secure, no problem. But you should not have to re-tighten. This assumes that all of your parts are correct and in good shape. I never used the pins on the Westerns on my 66 and my 65 had KH so never came with pins. I never lost a wheel using this procedure. Just do not rty to tighten the wheel with the suspension loaded. No matter how large a hammer/sledge you use it won't tighten correctly. By the way, the replacement KO's are not wheel bearings. Backing off the spinner to locate the aluminum pin is a really bad idea (just my opinion). Good luck.

[Dick W.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Hope this helps..just my experience with both KH knocks and western "pin" replacements. 15 years+
1) no lubricant on the threads...really important.
2) wheels cannot be tightened properly with a load on the suspension. Jack the car up enough to take the major weight off the tire/wheel. Hit with the normal KO hammer. When tight you will hear a definitive 'ringing" through the suspension every time. You are done. Let the wheel down. If you want to drive a bit and re-check to make your self feel more secure, no problem. But you should not have to re-tighten. This assumes that all of your parts are correct and in good shape. I never used the pins on the Westerns on my 66 and my 65 had KH so never came with pins. I never lost a wheel using this procedure. Just do not rty to tighten the wheel with the suspension loaded. No matter how large a hammer/sledge you use it won't tighten correctly. By the way, the replacement KO's are not wheel bearings. Backing off the spinner to locate the aluminum pin is a really bad idea (just my opinion). Good luck.

Bob, respectfully disagree with you on the tightening the spinners with no load on them. The suspension will bounce and not allow you to fully torque the wheels. You can snug them in the air, but to get the full torque on the spinners they will have to be on the ground.

[Bob G.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Hi Dick,
Thanks for the suggestion.
I actually learned the process I suggested many years ago from an early 1968? or so Chiltons manual and my experience working with Halibrand-type wheels in my dad's garage. We know that the spinner requires more torque than a conventional wheel. The AIM says 450 lb/ft and he can't get that measure of torque with the tire off the ground- I agree. But you have to seat the spinner adequately prior to torque. Seating of the spinner flange is of utmost importance. Seating the spinner before the suspension is fully loaded will guarantee the spinner mates with the hub properly. Ther is no real need to load the suspension at this point and the spinner might not maintain an optimum connection if you do it the other way. You can obtain the correct torque using the hammer if partially loaded and the spinner's connection to the hub will remain intact. I can only go by my experience and this might work for him as it has for others that I have suggested the technique to. We want him to feel safe and have a confidence in his wheels.

[Jim L.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Ah...the esteemed inventor of the ultimate spinner remover! I thought for sure I was gonna have to copy u'r tool. Jim.

Motherhood, necessity, and invention, you know. I typically have more trouble getting the frappin' spinners off than keeping them on.

If you need one like it, I'll be glad to send an engineering drawing.

Since getting the car here in Calif., I constantly checked it. Before driving it one morning, I touched the hub cap & it fell off, that revealed the pin stuck in a gap where it didn't belong, See the pics in Post 1 & 18. When I asked here for advice, folks wanted to know how the wheel was mounted, which I had no idea of. In attempting to remove the spinner so we could see what was underneath, I encountered the problem that I couldn't get the damn thing off!....hope that clears it up for ya...if not, feel free to ask.

If the tapered cone of the spinner is contacting the cone of the wheel, and doing so with sufficient force, the spinner will stay on. Trust me (see my above comment).

So that makes me wonder if wear (either on the wheel or the spinner) is so great that the spinner is bottoming out on the adapter threads instead of actually clamping the wheel in place.

Easy to test: Ka-whang the spinner on as tight as you can get it. Then lift that corner of the car and see if the wheel is loose on the adapter.

If it's not, then Jimmy is all wet and doesn't know what he's talking about. (Happens a lot)

Jim

[Peter N.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Hi Dick,
Thanks for the suggestion.
I actually learned the process I suggested many years ago from an early 1968? or so Chiltons manual and my experience working with Halibrand-type wheels in my dad's garage. We know that the spinner requires more torque than a conventional wheel. The AIM says 450 lb/ft and he can't get that measure of torque with the tire off the ground- I agree. But you have to seat the spinner adequately prior to torque. Seating of the spinner flange is of utmost importance. Seating the spinner before the suspension is fully loaded will guarantee the spinner mates with the hub properly. Ther is no real need to load the suspension at this point and the spinner might not maintain an optimum connection if you do it the other way. You can obtain the correct torque using the hammer if partially loaded and the spinner's connection to the hub will remain intact. I can only go by my experience and this might work for him as it has for others that I have suggested the technique to. We want him to feel safe and have a confidence in his wheels.

So...I'm gonna have confidence in my wheels when some folks say, "Beat the crap outta them w/ a 6lb. lead hammer on the ground" & Bob w/ yrs of experience says the above....well, I'm glad that's settled!

Motherhood, necessity, and invention, you know. I typically have more trouble getting the frappin' spinners off than keeping them on.

If you need one like it, I'll be glad to send an engineering drawing.
If the tapered cone of the spinner is contacting the cone of the wheel, and doing so with sufficient force, the spinner will stay on. Trust me (see my above comment).

So that makes me wonder if wear (either on the wheel or the spinner) is so great that the spinner is bottoming out on the adapter threads instead of actually clamping the wheel in place.

Easy to test: Ka-whang the spinner on as tight as you can get it. Then lift that corner of the car and see if the wheel is loose on the adapter.

If it's not, then Jimmy is all wet and doesn't know what he's talking about. (Happens a lot)

Jim

Before doing what Jim say & tightening the spinner, I take it that the pics don't show any reason why the wheel should be loosening...is that correct?...would pulling the wheel off the axle & taking pics, provide any useful info for u folks? This is the 1st time I've ever seen these type wheels.

[William C.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

I wouldn't say yes or no on your question with respect to pictures. There have been several different manufactures of the pinned versions over the years, and not all were made on the same tooling. Some were very good, and some not so. Remember Originals did not use/need pins, so work toward that thought.

[Wayne G.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Peter,
I don't know if you have noticed but it appears that the wheel in the photo has the "driving hole" as described by Chevrolet elongated. If that is the case I don't think you can keep that wheel tight. I personnaly would not try to tighten that wheel until you have the wheel repaired. You should also inspect the other (3) prior to driving the car. Maybe they have run loose also.

Just an observation.

Wayne

[John H.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Peter,
I don't know if you have noticed but it appears that the wheel in the photo has the "driving hole" as described by Chevrolet elongated.
Wayne

Wayne -

I don't see any elongation in the drive pin holes or wear on the pins themselves; the lug nut clearance holes, of course, don't matter.

[William C.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

It looks like the area where the spinner seats may no longer be concentric in the last set of pictures.

[Peter N.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Peter,
I don't know if you have noticed but it appears that the wheel in the photo has the "driving hole" as described by Chevrolet elongated. If that is the case I don't think you can keep that wheel tight. I personally would not try to tighten that wheel until you have the wheel repaired. You should also inspect the other (3) prior to driving the car. Maybe they have run loose also.

Just an observation.

Wayne

It looks like the area where the spinner seats may no longer be concentric in the last set of pictures.

I'm afraid I don't follow u gents.

I did remove the wheel entirely & took some additional photos. 3 of us tried to see if there were signs that the wheel might be out of round or wearing unevenly. Sometimes we saw something only to not having that observation confirmed. We also took calipers & measured certain areas to see if the large center hole was perhaps not perfectly round. Our measurements just didn't stand up to subsequent observations however, ie, I'm not confident in posting my suspicions right now.

So....I've swapped the RF wheel/tire with the RR one. The spinners were not swapped.I've personally tighten them following various methods posted here. Note. this is the first time I've tighten the wheels. Pins were not used in either of these wheels for the simple fact that I didn't have any spares. The RF one was of course destroyed. The RR pin fell out while removing the wheel. It was partially destroyed also, I'm assuming from the blows on the spinner in removing it.

I forgot to test the wheels while raised as Jim Lockwood suggested. I'll do that before my local drives tomorrow. Of course I'll be checking the tightness constantly. Hopefully this will tell me something....maybe one wheel will work loose, maybe both or perhaps none . If u don't hear from me again, please make this thread available to any competent ambulance chaser...my estate will think u

[Tom H.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

The RR pin fell out while removing the wheel. It was partially destroyed also, I'm assuming from the blows on the spinner in removing it.

Are you attempting to tighten or loosen the spinners with these pins in place ??

[Terry R.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

Check the wheel,the KO, and the cone where they seat. If it's rough at all where it seats you're wasting your time. My bet is if it was run loose once it has lost that taper. Good luck

[Wayne G.]

Re: Why does this wheel keep coming off ?

John,
After I looked at the photo again I think you're right about the drive pin holes being OK. The clearance hole is the one that looks elongated. At this point I think the wheel should be inspected and measured for correct fit by someone that has experience with Knock Off wheels.
Peter be careful before you damage the fender.

Wayne