Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

[Chris E.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

Ok, here's a simple answer.

Don't bring the Shipping Data Report to the judging event. The judges do NOT have access to that, and won't know. Even if they did, your friend is the ORIGINAL OWNER of the car. If your friend is taking the car to a Regional or National meet, and he is confident that the trim and VIN tags have never been off the car, the judges inspection of them will mirror that. In other words, if he has the real deal, the judges will see that.

No worries.

[Michael W.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

Larry-

How does the trim tag date line up with the estimated date from the birthday book?

[Larry E.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

Larry-

How does the trim tag date line up with the estimated date from the birthday book?

Michael:
As I recall it is three days past the birthday book date. Larry

[Joel F.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

Here is my $.02, take it for what it's worth. If it is possible that a line worker typo'ed the model year, paint codes, etc., then it certainly stands to reason that he might typo the build date. If it were me, I'd pay a friendly call to Al Grenning. He has photo evidence of many many tags. He should be able to tell based on the tag's body number approximately what date the car was built. He should also be able to tell if other cars built around this car had the same date typo, etc. Since this appears to be a factory error I would hope he'd want to offer an opinion on a pro bono basis since by doing so expands his library and the cannon of knowledge.

[Chris E.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

He should also be able to tell if other cars built around this car had the same date typo, etc.

Joel, just focusing in on one part of your post. In my LIMITED experience, the cars built AROUND the car with a typo on the trim tag usually don't exhibit the same error. My car has a typo on the tag. I've seen the trim and VIN tags for the car built TWO CARS before mine, and it is fine.

One data point, take it for what it's worth.

[Joel F.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

Joel, just focusing in on one part of your post. In my LIMITED experience, the cars built AROUND the car with a typo on the trim tag usually don't exhibit the same error. My car has a typo on the tag. I've seen the trim and VIN tags for the car built TWO CARS before mine, and it is fine.

One data point, take it for what it's worth.

Fair point Chris, but I still think it would be worth checking. Additionally, just using generic numbers, if the car in question had body number 3500, someone like Al Grenning should be able to confirm if other cars close to that body number were built on April 20 as the shipping report suggests, or the April 24th the trim tag suggests. If for example Al had evidence that body 3475 was an April 20 build and 3550 was an April 21, the original poster could conclude that his car had a typo on the trim tag body build date as his car falls in the middle, and certainly that it was not an April 24 build.

[Larry E.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

Fair point Chris, but I still think it would be worth checking. Additionally, just using generic numbers, if the car in question had body number 3500, someone like Al Grenning should be able to confirm if other cars close to that body number were built on April 20 as the shipping report suggests, or the April 24th the trim tag suggests. If for example Al had evidence that body 3475 was an April 20 build and 3550 was an April 21, the original poster could conclude that his car had a typo on the trim tag body build date as his car falls in the middle, and certainly that it was not an April 24 build.

Thanks for all the input guys. The bottom line is this:
All dates/info eg.: T/T Date--Date on Shipping Data--Body Number--Month ending VIN-- where all originated,recorded, printed, inputed by a "human being". This tells me
error can happen. To put the burden of proof on the car owner is wrong. I believe a lot of good cars will never be judged because of this. IMHO Larry

[Chris E.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

Fair point Chris, but I still think it would be worth checking. Additionally, just using generic numbers, if the car in question had body number 3500, someone like Al Grenning should be able to confirm if other cars close to that body number were built on April 20 as the shipping report suggests, or the April 24th the trim tag suggests. If for example Al had evidence that body 3475 was an April 20 build and 3550 was an April 21, the original poster could conclude that his car had a typo on the trim tag body build date as his car falls in the middle, and certainly that it was not an April 24 build.

Totally agree.

[Terry M.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

Thanks for all the input guys. The bottom line is this:
All dates/info eg.: T/T Date--Date on Shipping Data--Body Number--Month ending VIN-- where all originated,recorded, printed, inputed by a "human being". This tells me
error can happen. To put the burden of proof on the car owner is wrong. I believe a lot of good cars will never be judged because of this. IMHO Larry

I totally disagree. Larry, you and your friend are making an issue where none exists. Chris said it best in his post of January 16th, 2012, 04:34 PM:

"Ok, here's a simple answer.

Don't bring the Shipping Data Report to the judging event. The judges do NOT have access to that, and won't know. Even if they did, your friend is the ORIGINAL OWNER of the car. If your friend is taking the car to a Regional or National meet, and he is confident that the trim and VIN tags have never been off the car, the judges inspection of them will mirror that. In other words, if he has the real deal, the judges will see that.

No worries. "

He nailed it NO WORRIES why worry for nothing -- and it is nothing.

[Michael W.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

I totally disagree. Larry, you and your friend are making an issue where none exists. Chris said it best in his post of January 16th, 2012, 04:34 PM:

"Ok, here's a simple answer.

Don't bring the Shipping Data Report to the judging event. The judges do NOT have access to that, and won't know. Even if they did, your friend is the ORIGINAL OWNER of the car. If your friend is taking the car to a Regional or National meet, and he is confident that the trim and VIN tags have never been off the car, the judges inspection of them will mirror that. In other words, if he has the real deal, the judges will see that.

No worries. "

He nailed it NO WORRIES why worry for nothing -- and it is nothing.

This is why I asked how the trim tag date compares to the 'birthday book'. Taken for granted that the tag in question is a bonafide Chevrolet product and shows no signs of having being removed from the vehicle, would some eyebrows be raised over the discrepancy between 'the book' and the tag date?

[William C.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

Real question is what is the completion date based on the VIN?

[William C.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

As others have posted, the "shipping date" is not a part of the judging process, leave it at home, and the judges will do their job on the car as presented.

[Larry E.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

As others have posted, the "shipping date" is not a part of the judging process, leave it at home, and the judges will do their job on the car as presented.

OK; you guys make some good points. But-------------Knowing how judging is evolving I truely see the day when all the shipping data info is married
up with the VIN Corvette in the NCRS master computer. I predict there will be a day when someone preregisters all info will be forwarded to the meet
judging chairman. Maybe a should not be so skiptical and hope I am wrong. Remember you heard it from me first.--Larry

[William C.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

Maybe and someday is pretty far our in the future, and would need to have a significant magnitude of cross-checking with original cars, as well as a LOT more knowledge about what the GM "Shipping date" actually implies, if a projected date for dealers, it could have a wide variance from actual completion date of the car depending on a wide range of variables in the assembly plant. My best guess is it was a date supplied to the dealership with respect to the earliest date the car MIGHT be shipped, to be relayed to the prospective buyer. This is subject to market changes as with my Ordered new to my specs '74 ordered right before the Arab oil embargo in 1973, with a projected delivery of April-May 1974. Amagine my surprise when (r1ght having taken delivery of a new Olds Cutlass as I had wrecked my daily driver) The dealership called me in January of '74 to pick up my new ($7404) Corvette! Single, with a half-car garage! Have fun with the car and don't worry too much about understanding more than we can document as known.

[Terry M.]

Re: Question for Trim Tag Judges; Dates

Just to throw more stuff in the pot (I just love stirring a pot someone else is cooking) -- there are some (perhaps many) of us for which no legible shipping date records currently exist. I know there is a hole in the records for late 1969 and early 1970 production. I have seen others in the "hole" post on the board, and I am among them. I am told there are other "holes" in the records.

I bought my 1970 (trim tag date Jan 29 -- A29) new and have a yard of documentation. I know what dealer it came from and I can prove it to anyone's satisfaction. I know the date it arrived at the dealer (at least the date the dealer told me I could “come and get it.”). I know the date I took delivery – it is on the PoP along with my name and the address where I lived at that time. What I don’t know is when Chevrolet thinks it was shipped. When I sent for the NCRS Shipping Record Roy refunded my money. You want me to produce NCRS Shipping Records for my 1970 that already has the Duntov Mark of Excellence, NCRS 5-Star Bowtie, Bloomington Gold Certification and Benchmark, and The Triple Crown? Knock your socks off if you think that will ever happen -- and through no fault of mine.

I guess I could sum up my position with: "Over my dead body."