Machine shop problems with stamp pad

[William F.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Yeah, heard all this before,"NCRS doesn't certify anything, just a hobby, take up golf if you don't like it, blah, blah, blah." But if all this is true, then you're saying NCRS judging doesn't mean anything and this lowers the credibility of the organization. Should it? Don't we want NCRS be have the respect of being THE Corvette authority or are we going to surrender our position to another organization (Bloomington?) ?

[Michael J.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Don't we want NCRS be have the respect of being THE Corvette authority or are we going to surrender our position to another organization (Bloomington?) ?

In my opinion, Bloomington could not exists without NCRS, we do all the hard work, education, and documentation, and they make all the money.

[Michael W.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Yeah, heard all this before,"NCRS doesn't certify anything, just a hobby, take up golf if you don't like it, blah, blah, blah." But if all this is true, then you're saying NCRS judging doesn't mean anything and this lowers the credibility of the organization. Should it? Don't we want NCRS be have the respect of being THE Corvette authority or are we going to surrender our position to another organization (Bloomington?) ?

Sounds like you're confused as to what Flight Judging is all about.

[Timothy B.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Justin,

All the damage is done, if you have the instructions given to the shop in writing then try to seek damages. If not, it may be better to leave well enough alone as a restamp will appear counterfeit to any prospective buyer.

Get the Sheriff department to help if they can with the #'s and document, that's about all you can do at this point. What's the matter with a 250hp car, this is your car with the original motor and it's the same to this car IMO as a original FI engine to it's car.

[William F.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Not confused at all. The confusion is about how stamp pad is regarded. A restamp passes NCRS judging if it "appears" to be factory (i.e. get an expert restamper), but some posts tell person not to get a restamp because it will be "counterfit." Said it before and say it again, looks like we need to say whether a pad stamp is real or not. Have the restampers gotten so good that it's impossible to tell?

[Terry M.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Bill,
Some folks, including you and I, can say whatever we want to on a blog (at least until the moderators shut us down) but that does not make it official NCRS policy.

You are missing (or ignoring) that a stamp pad that "passes" (whatever that means) NCRS judging does not mean that stamp pad is the one that GM created. Similarly a stamp pad that "fails" (I guess that is the opposite of pass) NCRS judging also does not mean that the stamp pad is not the one GM created. The same statement applies to any other part of the car. A judging award does not carry with it any assurance of authenticity -- and every award for the last decade has said so on the back. Judging is supposed to be so the owner can improve his car, or feel good about the determination of his peers. On occasion the owner finds out what he thought he has is not what he has. Then he can seek other opinions, seek other options, or chose to enjoy what he has. Life is always about choices.

The real issue in my opinion is why no one seems to get all steamed up about someone creating a tag for a generator, starter, or rocker arm cover; and yet the same people will get all emotional about a small part of metal on the front of the engine. This is not a part of the female anatomy. Some perspective is in order. Watching the auctions will not give one that perspective, at least not until one learns what a carnival they are.

Some of us do this for FUN. If it is not fun, don't do it. Simple.
Some of us do this to make a profit. Few, if any, profit making endeavors are without risk. Generally the more risk the greater reward. That kind of works whether you are speculating in Corvettes, Corvette parts, banks, or Wall Street brokerages. If the opportunity to make money appears to diminish one should find other endeavors. To do otherwise will leave one unhappy, and that is not fun in my book. Others may find unhappiness is their joy. Those people are not pleasant to be around, IMO.

[Justin B.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Some things you can't restore. You can restore a pitted chassis which I'm sure most of us do and you can restore damaged areas in the bodies which we all have to do to a certain extent, etc. etc. But you can't restore an original stamp pad that has been "weathered" by nature and/or chemicals, heat, exc. So, it sounds like if your broach marks aren't noticable because of these factors then that means it isn't good enough to be considered 100% correct because it "isn't as it appeared from the factory". I'm definetely NOT going to deck my original stamp pad, make sure it has authentic, (as it appeared when new looking) broach marks, and then have it professionally restamped!
NCRS sets the standards for Corvettes. Our organization and it's decades of knowledge and research gives insurance, assurance, and confidence to those buying and selling cars. You always hear Barrett Jackson, ProTeam, and individuals (including us in the Driveline "Cars for Sale" section) make the above compliments a reality. The Top Flight, Duntov Award, and other NCRS certification awards are a way of proving that these cars are the real deal and not just a back yard-restored car assembled with repro. parts, with a perfectly restamped engine with the exact, just as original, broach marks and then represented as an authentic, very original car. I think most of the judges are very intelligent people but sometimes some of them may want to add a little common since in addition to their judging book. Also, many of these judges have a negative attitude right when they begin their inspection. Its like they are on a mission to tear you and your car apart and are also trying to prove that you and your car aren't worthy of any awards instead of the "lets take a look and see what we can do to help you and your car achieve the most points possible and where some changes need to be made." This attitude was the way it used to be and in many cases still is. That is what made our origanization fun. The judges that float around with this "I'm the man" attitude need to be pointed out and dealt with by their superiors, that is, if we still want to have fun. Otherwise, membership is sure to decline not only with the current members, but with those who may be interested in joining NCRS. This isn't the organization that it once was and thats too bad because we all love our Corvettes and enjoy setting goals with the aid of our origanization. NCRS is our own little world and i would like to continue living in it, minus those with the " I'm better than you and my car is better than yours" attitude, and I'm not just talking about the few jerky judges. This is just my input because I'm not scared to say what a lot of people are thinking.

[William F.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Justin,
NCRS does NOT certify that engine is not a restamp. If it's a good one and "appears as from factory," it passes.
Terry,
Pad "just a piece of metal'? Come on.Engine is the heart of a Corvette, and to most, a car having the engine original to the car makes a big difference in authenticy and value. You've weighed in several times on this subject saying the pad is not important. Since it doesn't matter to you, I don't suppose you would mind saying if your cars have original engine/stamp, no stamp, or restamp so we can know where you're coming from?

[Bruce B.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

OK guys, I think it is time to stop and have some fun.
Go drive your car, do a few burnouts and then come home, have a drink and think about how much fun you had with your car.

Bruce B

[Terry M.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Justin,
NCRS does NOT certify that engine is not a restamp. If it's a good one and "appears as from factory," it passes.
Terry,
Pad "just a piece of metal'? Come on.Engine is the heart of a Corvette, and to most, a car having the engine original to the car makes a big difference in authenticy and value. You've weighed in several times on this subject saying the pad is not important. Since it doesn't matter to you, I don't suppose you would mind saying if your cars have original engine/stamp, no stamp, or restamp so we can know where you're coming from?

Yep Bill, just a piece of metal. Heart, sure. Corvettes can have a heart transplant, and sometimes they grow 100 cubic inches in the process. The result of a Corvette heart transplant usually looks better than the guy they showed walking out of the hospital this week with a mechanical heart.

I don't mind talking about the Corvettes I own and have owned. It is a rather short story. Many here have seen some of them.
I have owned three Corvettes in my lifetime. I bought them all new. I once owned a 1969, but it lasted 6 weeks. High performance car, low performance driver.
The ones I still have are a 1970 LT1 and a 2008 Z06. The 1970 has achieved Duntov, 5-tar Bowtie, Bloomington Gold and Survivor and Benchmark. Yes, it has the original engine, which has never been out of the car. The 1970 has 61K miles (and they are all original) ) The 2008 is the same, but I will not present that car for Bloomington Gold judging (I am sure you know NCRS does not judge cars that new) because I made modifications to it (clear bra) within months of taking ownership that preclude a successful Bloomington Gold Award with it. I am in the process of making additional modifications to it. It is 4 years old and has almost 42K original miles on it. A little bird told me all of you will see more of that car soon. With that car I have received the Sportaman award with three add-on plaques. That is my Road Tour Car. I have participated in 16 or 17 (I forget the exact number and have to ask Scott all the time) Road Tours. Want to know more?

My bona fides? Well OK, but I am kind of embarrassed to mention them. I have never done this before, but it seems like time. I prefer to work for the organization I want and don't often talk about the past even though I am a history buff. About a quarter century ago I started the Historical Society in the town I live in.

In 1984 I went from Illinois to the NCRS National Convention in Copper Mountain Colorado (In a Suburban, with my family) to pitch the judging of 1968-1972 Corvettes to the Board. My big mouth there not only got that started, but also got the Corvette Museum started, but the latter is a whole other story well documented elsewhere.

BTW: I was 1970-1972 National Team Leader for over a decade, and resigned that position to take the job of Corvette Restorer Editor. I held that job for about 5 years. I am currently on the Judging Manual Review teams for 1968-69 and 1970-72. Around five years ago I began instructing the Advanced Judging Seminars at Regional and National meets. At the time NCRS stopped counting judging points at 400 I was tied for the highest number with one other individual. We were, along with several others, over 400 points at that time. All of the above is probably why NCRS gave me the NCRS Lifetime Achievement Award a couple of years ago.

I want to hasten to add that all the above aside, my opinion(s) are no more important than yours -- any of you. This organization is a democracy. It wasn't always that, but that too is another very much longer story. If you -- any of you -- don't like the way NCRS is going please speak to your Regional Director. Lift a few brewskies with them (yes, that still goes on) and tell them what you want. They are elected to serve the membership, and one of their tasks is to represent the position of ALL their constituents. If you don't believe they are doing that task you have the option of not voting for them when their term comes up. NCRS should serve ALL of its members, and if you believe you are not being heard take action. I did/do and you should too.

Sorry this has turned out far longer than I wanted, but some day Vinnie can use it for an obituary.

[Michael W.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Not confused at all. The confusion is about how stamp pad is regarded. A restamp passes NCRS judging if it "appears" to be factory (i.e. get an expert restamper), but some posts tell person not to get a restamp because it will be "counterfit." Said it before and say it again, looks like we need to say whether a pad stamp is real or not. Have the restampers gotten so good that it's impossible to tell?

Yes, you're confused. the purpose of Flight Judging is not to authenticate or certify a car or it's components. I'm amazed that we kinda do that with trim tags.

[Terry M.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Yes, you're confused. the purpose of Flight Judging is not to authenticate or certify a car or it's components. I'm amazed that we kinda do that with trim tags.

Not everyone thought that we should, and I expect there are still some who disagree with the trim tag issue. On the other hand there are those who want us to go farther into the authentication realm.

[Michael W.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Not everyone thought that we should, and I expect there are still some who disagree with the trim tag issue. On the other hand there are those who want us to go farther into the authentication realm.

I understand why it was done and agree with that part of it. It's heading down the slippery slope of going father into authentication that makes me nervous.

[Keith S.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

If a filed off serial number on a handgun can be raised and the evidence and supporting affidavits from the authorities used to connect an accused killer to the murder weapon and potential legal consequences, I would laugh out loud at the credibility of any organization that did not accept same, for something like what is being discussed.

[Michael W.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Keith, you'd be right if the goal of Flight Judging was to establish the originality and authenticity of an engine and it's stamp pad as being the 'born with' engine. But it's not, in any way shape or form, as said many times above and elsewhere.