Machine shop problems with stamp pad

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

There are a lot of great people here. Some of us have been around for a long time when Corvettes were CHEAP & you restored them yourself or with help.Terry,ROY & many others that started in NCRS about the time I did have stepped up to the plate & made the NCRS hat it is today. I was too busey with my business to get really involved. I can tell you that These & most of the people that run NCRS do NOT profit from there time. Most spend there own money & time to attend & serve the NCRS as judges ETC as Terry has said. I don't know why everyone has a hissy fit about " ORIGINAL" motors. SN & trim tags are another issue. Everyone wants to know what the car was when it left the factory not what parts were replaced. I wonder if the Corvettes were only worth what they were in 1975 & restorations cost 10,000.00 would we be talking about this. AGAIN as I said before this is a hobby lets let it be about the Corvettes not the master judges or people. This is supposed to be FUN

[Don H.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Everyone has a hissy fit about original engines because the cars that have them are rare, and that means money. And the hobby is focused on a particular car, but it is fun BECAUSE of the like minded people you meet who you enjoy being around WITH the cars. Now some people collect their cars, and hoard them, never interacting with any people I suppose, and that must be fun for them. But for the crowd I hang with, we love to interact with each other, and our cars. Most of my crowd cares not a wit for NCRS judging, but some of us enjoy that. We enjoy the club, and many of the people in it. Not everyone has to. We all love classic corvettes.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Everyone has a hissy fit about original engines because the cars that have them are rare, and that means money. And the hobby is focused on a particular car, but it is fun BECAUSE of the like minded people you meet who you enjoy being around WITH the cars. Now some people collect their cars, and hoard them, never interacting with any people I suppose, and that must be fun for them. But for the crowd I hang with, we love to interact with each other, and our cars. Most of my crowd cares not a wit for NCRS judging, but some of us enjoy that. We enjoy the club, and many of the people in it. Not everyone has to. We all love classic corvettes.

Well said. but I well bet that a lot of people that think they have original motor cars are restamps & why are they worth more than GOOD restamps. I personaly think Bow Tie origional paint,interior & chassey Corvettes are worth more than a factory stamped block Corvette.

[William F.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Not calling into question qualifications or contributions of NCRS judges or others. I'm just one of those who feel authentic pad stamp and motor origininal to the particular car are important. If other organizations are willing to step up and say whether an engine is original to the car or not, and we are not, IMO, NCRS is giving away some of its status and respect as THE Corvette authority.

[Michael W.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Not calling into question qualifications or contributions of NCRS judges or others. I'm just one of those who feel authentic pad stamp and motor origininal to the particular car are important. If other organizations are willing to step up and say whether an engine is original to the car or not, and we are not, IMO, NCRS is giving away some of its status and respect as THE Corvette authority.

Bloomington is once a year and has hand picked 'paid' judges, only a few of which are permitted to bless or condemn a stamp pad. How would you organize and ensure the same level of expertise at every chapter, regional and national NCRS meet around the world?


Maybe there is a growing need to have pads authenticated, but Flight Judging events are not the right venue.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Not calling into question qualifications or contributions of NCRS judges or others. I'm just one of those who feel authentic pad stamp and motor origininal to the particular car are important. If other organizations are willing to step up and say whether an engine is original to the car or not, and we are not, IMO, NCRS is giving away some of its status and respect as THE Corvette authority.

I was going to not post on this thread anymore but I will one more time. The problem sir is that there is NO way to verify "FACTORY STAMPED BLOCKS ".fOR THOSE OF US THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND CORVETTES SINCE THE 70'S WILL TELL NO WAY WERE THERE AS MANY CORVETTES WITH ORIGIONAL AS THEY ARE NOW. Most BG & some NCRS judges have a financial intrest in the hobby & the best way to get gold is to have your Corvette restored by them or one of the big players.It can be done but one gets more of a free pass if you do. One hand washes the other just like in any other BUSINESS! Remember only God can tell a origional stamp block & I don't think he cares.

[William F.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Michael,
I see your point, but your point makes my point. If we don't do something, Bloomington, not NCRS, is going to be recognized as the authority on authenticity.Maybe we should do the same at our Nationals and at some regionals. If dues need to be increased a reasonable amount to reimburse a number of judges participating in pad judging,or charge members who agree to have their pad judged, fine with me.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

it would still be subjective as it is someones personal opinion.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

it would still be subjective as it is someones personal opinion.

CLEM
That is what I have been saying but some people choose to ignore facts & reality. For those that get it no explanition is needed. For those that don't NONE is possable.

[Pat M.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Of course it's all someone's opinion, whether a car and/or its parts are opined to be "born with" original, or whether the car and/or its parts are opined to simply be TFP. But surely an expert's opinion, which obviously could be wrong, is better than nothing.

I'll betcha the same people who always say "you'll never know if it's original" don't hesitate to determine as best they can whether their car/parts are "born with" original, and act accordingly, despite the fact that one can never know for certain.

I really don't have a strong opinion as whether NCRS should "authenicate" anything or not, but surely an educated opinion is valuable in general, and in many cases the best and only thing a person can rely on. JMHO

[Timothy B.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

What happens legally if someone in the NCRS says engine stamp pad #'s are original to the car and it's a mistake. Lets say a person spends $$$ on the car only to find out it's original motor was a different HP or got lost somewhere in the cars life.

IMO, that's why NCRS only states #'s appear as the typical factory production, it keeps them out of any legal problems. Judging should be a fun day but anytime there is $$$ invested things change.

[Keith S.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Michael Ward said.......

Keith, you'd be right if the goal of Flight Judging was to establish the originality and authenticity of an engine and it's stamp pad as being the 'born with' engine. But it's not, in any way shape or form, as said many times above and elsewhere.

Then why is this discussion occuring again, which seems to reappear with relative frequency on every Vette forum ? I am in the camp that doesn't care about numbers matching stamp pads.......if a Vette has a VIN, tank sticker, tach, etc, and other parts that say it should have had a 427/435 or whatever, and it has one that is period correct, that is good enough for me.

The only matching numbers that matter are the compression and leak down results IMHO.

[William F.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Not a thing wrong with making a profit by providing a needed service provided there is no conflict of interest. That's the American free enterprise system. Al Grenning has done a good job with evaluating pad stamps, especially big blocks; Al and Roy Sinor likewise with their trim tag/VIN book; Noland Adams with his restoration books as only a few of these examples that have helped Corvette enthusiasts as well as making a well deserved profitfor their efforts. Back pages of The Driveline are filled with many more examples.Interesting to hear that restampers have gotten so good that NOBODY can tell real from fake in some people's opinion, at least. Just sems schizophrenic that NCRS says restamp passes as long it's good, or nobody wants to take a stand and say yes or no, but when anyone in these threads asks about restamping or who does a good one, replies are like"We don't do that sort of thing here."

[Michael W.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Just sems schizophrenic that NCRS says restamp passes as long it's good,

But NCRS doesn't say that. If a judge detects a restamp and can quantify his reasoning, it gets a deduct.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Machine shop problems with stamp pad

Not a thing wrong with making a profit by providing a needed service provided there is no conflict of interest. That's the American free enterprise system. Al Grenning has done a good job with evaluating pad stamps, especially big blocks; Al and Roy Sinor likewise with their trim tag/VIN book; Noland Adams with his restoration books as only a few of these examples that have helped Corvette enthusiasts as well as making a well deserved profitfor their efforts. Back pages of The Driveline are filled with many more examples.Interesting to hear that restampers have gotten so good that NOBODY can tell real from fake in some people's opinion, at least. Just sems schizophrenic that NCRS says restamp passes as long it's good, or nobody wants to take a stand and say yes or no, but when anyone in these threads asks about restamping or who does a good one, replies are like"We don't do that sort of thing here."

PLEASE REREAD MY POST. AG has approved many restamps as being typical. He dose not certify that they are factory stamps.AL & ROY have proof that there are certon things about a trim tag that they can tell if its origional. Baybe some day someone will make perfect repo trimtag. who knows. Remember that Noland Adams said AO Smith made some small block 67'S with BB hoods. Can you tell a good restamp from origional? NO & NO ELSE CAN that is why AG & people that know can't say for sure. Would you be the one to tell a owner that his Corvette is a restamp when there is no reason that it is not typical of factory stamps& brand his car as conterfit? SORRY that you don't get it.