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Close encounter with a new Stingray

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  • Duke W.
    Beyond Control Poster
    • January 1, 1993
    • 15610

    Close encounter with a new Stingray

    I did a double take at our local King Harbor cruise in Redondo Beach late yesterday afternoon, but yep, that's a new Stingray, red on red, and it was a Z51

    It was under the tutelage of Car and Driver's Aaron Robinson. My first impression on sitting in the driver's seat was mind blowing. The cockpit is very intimate with superb ergonomics. From the door arm rest to the center consol the controls and telemetry sweep around in a semi-circle that are within easy reach and view. This is a car that you put on and wear like a finely tailored suit. The last time I was so-seduced was over 20 years ago when I first sat in a second generation MR2, and I bought one of those.

    The passenger seat is also very comfy and intimate, and the conveniently placed grab handles on the center consol and door will console your wife/GF when you're pulling 1.1g on Mulholland.

    I asked Aaron to open the hatch and immediately saw "Willow Springs dust" (I know it well.) in the gutters, and the outside shoulders of the tires clearly said that this car was on the track recently.

    I like the front end which looks very tidy and modern with some traditional Corvette styling cues, but I'm still trying to come to grips with the rear - the tail lights and black valence panel that extends all the way to the top of the license plate housing. I'm thinking it should be lower - no higher than the bottom of the license plate housing or body color.

    I had a couple of questions for Aaron that will require answers from the engineers. First, how do they keep the hot radiator exit air from the very functional hood extractor from entering the HVAC system inlet that appears to be, as on most cars, at the base of the windshield.

    Second, though the LT1 has nearly the same average torque up to 4000 as the LS7, it does have a shallow "hole" from about 2500 to 4000 that I think may be the result of single cam phasing rather than a mechanism to vary inlet and exhaust phasing independently as with the new Viper engine.

    Whether this could be detected by a sensitive driver, I don't know. My Cosworth Vega has a similar shallow, but broad hole in this range even after I reindexed the cams to what is essentially L79 valve timing. I can feel it, but it's only a two-liter engine.

    C and D has test results in the September issue and online, and they have nothing but good things to say, especially about the interior that's been the subject of constant criticism for the last two generations. Regardless of how you have all the electronic assists configured, the Z51 with the dry sump, engine, trans, and axle coolers makes for a street legal race car when you want it to be, but a near luxury car on a long freeway cruise. Seventh gear (0.47:1) yields a little under 1300 revs at 70, and the interior sound level is 69 dBA. That's luxury car territory, and you'll be getting close to 30 MPG, too!

    Duke
  • Don H.
    Moderator
    • June 16, 2009
    • 2236

    #2
    Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

    One of the best reviews I have read to date. Thanks D

    Comment

    • Martin M.
      Very Frequent User
      • November 1, 1979
      • 124

      #3
      Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

      Ran into one yesterday 8/23 in Pahrump, NV at the restaurant at the Mountain Falls GC. I had a few words with the 2 occupants as they finished their lunch. They were probably out at Death Valley for high temp tests, or at Spring Mountain to beat up on it for a few (hundred?) laps. It is not a Vette from the rear. I wonder how long it will take for someone to engineer the rear with 2 taillights.

      Marty
      Beautiful Pahrump, NV.
      No smog, no rain, no winter, no hurricanes, no tornadoes,
      no earthquakes, no forest fires, but prime rib 24/7, and an NHL hockey team in LV.

      vetteheads.com alumni, Boston MA alumni
      1963 NOM Split, 1963 Orig Split 340, 1963 Red Vert Ex NCM opening display car
      1970 Coupe, 1985 Coupe Road Warrior, 1986 Vert
      1932 Ford Highboy Roadster TPI, 1932 Chev 4 Dr Confederate Sedan
      1957 Chrysler 300 C 392 Hemi Car
      All for sale - most not cheap!!!

      Comment

      • Ray G.
        Extremely Frequent Poster
        • May 31, 1986
        • 1187

        #4
        Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

        Very interesting. Thanks Duke.
        And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance
        I hope you dance


        Comment

        • Steven B.
          Extremely Frequent Poster
          • June 30, 1982
          • 3976

          #5
          Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

          Duke, I did get to see the green/Brownstone car here in TX a few months ago and liked the overall exterior/interior but I cannot get used to the rear, either. How closely did the red of the interior match the rec of the exterior? Steve

          Comment

          • Michael J.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • January 27, 2009
            • 7073

            #6
            Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

            The WSJ certainly liked the C7: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...163642134.html

            But, it also says: "
            I took a seat in a fairly representative C2 Coupe ('66, 427 Big Block, I think), with GM styling chief Ed Welburn chatting over my shoulder.Second, C2 Sting Ray was created a long time ago and in a wildly different commercial and technical milieu; invoking the name for the modern car carries the hazard of overreaching.And third, the C7 isn't the C2. It couldn't hope to be. As the decades pass, the C2 continues to assert itself as one of the signal examples of American industrial design: a Chrysler Building, a Fallingwater, an iPhone. I find it incredible that the Smithsonian Institution doesn't have a 1963 split-window C2 in its collection. You can pick a good one up at auction for less than $150,000."

            I think that pretty well sums it up too.
            Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

            Comment

            • Duke W.
              Beyond Control Poster
              • January 1, 1993
              • 15610

              #7
              Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

              No car looks anything remotely like the C2, although the split window was borrowed from a fifties Alfa concept car that I think was designed by Bertone. Overall it was Mitchell's concept, but the C2 has some issues. It's an aerodymamic disaster with a drag coefficient of about 0.5 and lots of front lift, but it gives every redblooded American boy solid wood!

              Duke

              Comment

              • Stuart F.
                Expired
                • August 31, 1996
                • 4676

                #8
                Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

                Good review Duke. I saw and sat in 3 examples at Carlisle and they do fit you like a glove. I sat in the grandstand and listened to the Chief Engineer, the Head Interior Engineer, and the Product Manager. They asked for a show of hands on the rear styling and it was about 50/50 (I didn't vote). They defended it in terms of the need for the brake cooling air exhaust vents designed for maximum vacuum effect (they are fitted around the outer edge of the taillights, I believe). Also, they noted that even though the lights are square, the pattern of LED lights within (when lit) are not. Also, they pointed out that the C-4's were square (with rounded corners) and the C-5's were Oval, so what was the big deal? They said they considered round lights, but they didn't fit with the rest of the rear styling (aero engineering). I believe someone said that they challenged the aftermarket to come up with improvements to either the rear end or, for that matter, with their usual addon interior gadgetry, etc. I agree, they will have a tough job.

                The Head Engineer said he drove the automatic car over from Detroit to Carlisle with 2 on board (and luggage) and averaged 38 mpg. This was using I believe he said the Economy mode which deactivates cylinders. He said that 40 plus mpg was very likely reachable.

                They had just returned from the west coast where they had the session with the mag writers where the reception was very favorable. They included in the mix one total base price car and the writers had trouble figuring out which one it was. They all agreed that they knew within a very short driving distance that they were in a totally new and different car compared to the C-6. Much more of a "Porche" like experience. They mentioned that even the steering wheel was smaller, in fact, the smallest ever made by GM (?), just to present that race car feel to it.

                The plan next is to actually have comp tests with all/any of it's competitors, specially of interest with other's "base" cars (if they have one).

                Well, that's some of the points I picked up on there and hope they are of some value.

                Stu Fox

                Comment

                • Michael G.
                  Extremely Frequent Poster
                  • November 12, 2008
                  • 2155

                  #9
                  Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

                  Thanks for the review Duke. After reading many such reviews and sitting in the cars at Hampton, for the first time in many, many years I can hardly wait to take delivery of a new car. The trip to to Bowling Green to pick it up ( in early October, I hope) will probably seem longer than my last interminable flight to Australia....

                  Comment

                  • William F.
                    Extremely Frequent Poster
                    • June 9, 2009
                    • 1354

                    #10
                    Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

                    Michael, Also read this Sat. and was wondering if we had any other WSJ readers. Think author put things in proper perspective.

                    Comment

                    • Duke W.
                      Beyond Control Poster
                      • January 1, 1993
                      • 15610

                      #11
                      Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

                      Originally posted by Stuart Fox (28060)
                      Good review Duke. I saw and sat in 3 examples at Carlisle and they do fit you like a glove. I sat in the grandstand and listened to the Chief Engineer, the Head Interior Engineer, and the Product Manager. They asked for a show of hands on the rear styling and it was about 50/50 (I didn't vote). They defended it in terms of the need for the brake cooling air exhaust vents designed for maximum vacuum effect (they are fitted around the outer edge of the taillights, I believe). Also, they noted that even though the lights are square, the pattern of LED lights within (when lit) are not. Also, they pointed out that the C-4's were square (with rounded corners) and the C-5's were Oval, so what was the big deal? They said they considered round lights, but they didn't fit with the rest of the rear styling (aero engineering). I believe someone said that they challenged the aftermarket to come up with improvements to either the rear end or, for that matter, with their usual addon interior gadgetry, etc. I agree, they will have a tough job.

                      The Head Engineer said he drove the automatic car over from Detroit to Carlisle with 2 on board (and luggage) and averaged 38 mpg. This was using I believe he said the Economy mode which deactivates cylinders. He said that 40 plus mpg was very likely reachable.

                      They had just returned from the west coast where they had the session with the mag writers where the reception was very favorable. They included in the mix one total base price car and the writers had trouble figuring out which one it was. They all agreed that they knew within a very short driving distance that they were in a totally new and different car compared to the C-6. Much more of a "Porche" like experience. They mentioned that even the steering wheel was smaller, in fact, the smallest ever made by GM (?), just to present that race car feel to it.

                      The plan next is to actually have comp tests with all/any of it's competitors, specially of interest with other's "base" cars (if they have one).

                      Well, that's some of the points I picked up on there and hope they are of some value.

                      Stu Fox
                      Great info, Stu! I think I have more of a problem with the black rear valence. It comes up too high and is too shiny. At least GM is very good at listening to Corvette customers and enthusiasts, so maybe they'll rethink some of the rear design details. Maybe the 2014 will become an instant classic like the SWC - the only year a Corvette ever had square tail lights.

                      I'd also like to see "somewhat round" tail lights moved an inch or two inboard to make the air extractors larger. Most don't even notice them because they are so small, and larger extractors will increase flow through the coolers.

                      In ECO mode the engine runs on four cylinders at light load. If you add enough throttle it will hit on all eight, but I wonder if it will pull a six percent grade in seventh at freeway speed, given the 1275 revs at 60. (Anyone who has ever let me evaluate their vintage Corvettes knows that one of my first tests is to see if the engine pulls smoothly from 1000 revs in top gear, and all should if theyr'e set up right, even 30-30 cam engines.) All reports indicate that the transistion from eight to four and back is seemless, but one reason for the increased curb weight is the torque tube had to be considerably stiffened up to quell objectionable low rev vibration in four-cylinder mode. I easily believe the well over 30 MPG on a long freeway cruise at something close to the legal speed limit.

                      I think that outside of ECO mode, it will always run on eight, but I believe ECO mode is the startup default. They had to do that to satisfy the EPA to adverstise the ECO mode fuel mileage numbers. One of the best attributes of the design is the different ways the driver can easily configure the operating mode to suit his purpose. Most modern cars with all the e-nannies don't allow anywhere near the C7's flexibility.

                      All the current published road tests were done at Milford using the Black Lake for the skidpad test, so part of the 1.08g might have something to do with that particular surface. I think it's a record for a production car that does not have DOT legal racing tires as OE.

                      I have no doubt that the mags will do comparison tests at their normal test venues when true production cars are available, and Porshce (911, Boxter, or Cayman) along with Viper and Ferrari 458 are natural enemies, however, except for a moderately equipped Boxter or Cayman, all are way above the Stingray's price range. I have no doubt that on a price-adjusted basis, the new Stingray will win, even though it won't be the fastest in a straight line, but it could be the road course winner, and will definitely be the fuel mileage winner.

                      Duke

                      Comment

                      • Michael J.
                        Extremely Frequent Poster
                        • January 27, 2009
                        • 7073

                        #12
                        Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

                        I don't see why 30 mpg is such a huge thing. I routinely get 26 mpg in my '12 ZR1 (638HP, way more than that LT1), and am turning 1600 rpm @ 70. I just think this C7 is a small step forward, not a giant leap of any kind in mpg, especially considering the modest HP of it.
                        Big Tanks In the High Mountains of New Mexico

                        Comment

                        • Patrick H.
                          Beyond Control Poster
                          • December 1, 1989
                          • 11608

                          #13
                          Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

                          31.1 mpg in my 2008 driving from Maumee, OH to Breezewood, PA on Thursday when going to Carlisle. I can't complain about that, and I've gotten similar mileage on that same leg of the trip previously.
                          Vice-Chairman (West), Michigan Chapter NCRS
                          71 "deer modified" coupe
                          72 5-Star Bowtie / Duntov coupe. https://www.flickr.com/photos/124695...57649252735124
                          2008 coupe
                          Available stickers: Engine suffix code, exhaust tips & mufflers, shocks, AIR diverter valve broadcast code.

                          Comment

                          • Pat M.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • April 1, 2006
                            • 1575

                            #14
                            Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

                            Originally posted by Stuart Fox (28060)
                            Also, they pointed out that the C-4's were square (with rounded corners) and the C-5's were Oval, so what was the big deal?
                            While both of those tailights were not really round, they were far more similar to previous round tailights than the C7's totally square, "cut-off-top" tailights.

                            Sounds like a fine car, but so dramatically changing such iconic cues will turn off many.

                            Comment

                            • Martin M.
                              Very Frequent User
                              • November 1, 1979
                              • 124

                              #15
                              Re: Close encounter with a new Stingray

                              Ran into one yesterday 8/23 in Pahrump, NV at the restaurant at the Mountain Falls GC. I had a few words with the 2 occupants as they finished their lunch. They were probably out at Death Valley for high temp tests, or at Spring Mountain to beat up on it for a few (hundred?) laps. It is not a Vette from the rear. I wonder how long it will take for someone to engineer the rear with 2 taillights.

                              Marty
                              Beautiful Pahrump, NV.
                              No smog, no rain, no winter, no hurricanes, no tornadoes,
                              no earthquakes, no forest fires, but prime rib 24/7, and an NHL hockey team in LV.

                              vetteheads.com alumni, Boston MA alumni
                              1963 NOM Split, 1963 Orig Split 340, 1963 Red Vert Ex NCM opening display car
                              1970 Coupe, 1985 Coupe Road Warrior, 1986 Vert
                              1932 Ford Highboy Roadster TPI, 1932 Chev 4 Dr Confederate Sedan
                              1957 Chrysler 300 C 392 Hemi Car
                              All for sale - most not cheap!!!

                              Comment

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