What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

[Michael J.]

[Marc S.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Mark,

Wow have I enjoyed reading this thread; you have learned much here. I offer a short summary: Mr Shorts is also ID'ed as "Ballard", "the real deal" and "issues"; with some sorta blond hair; he will be easy to find; you will like him and learn from him. Go to the judge school on Thursday and introduce yourself and we can all cheer for you; OJ on Fri; attend Terry's AJS on Sat, as he invited you and you will leave Kissimmee with 6 judge points on your way to Master Judge and MANY learning experiences.

Now go have fun we all started some where...it's just some got old but we ALL are still having fun.

Thanks for the details. I will keep my eyes out for him. Does he go by Mr. Shorts or do I call him "Sir?" Looking very forward to this meet!

[Gary C.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Marc,

Best to be respectful to all in spite of the "comments" in this thread.

Gary
....

[Chris E.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Chris when you say run it through a Chapter Flight event are you advising to simply drive the car AS IS to the event with no modifications and have it judged to experience the process?
And then decide what to do from there. BIG CHANGES is something that does concern me. The car works so well now and my guess is that you may end up putting things on the car that do not work as well as what is on it currently. I hope I am making sense. Thanks for your input!

Marc, I mean to sign up for your local Chapter Judging Meet, and enter your car for Flight Judging. And yes, without much of anything changed. Where owners tend to struggle is they have a car that doesn't match their goals and expectations (they want a National Top Flight car that has a non-original motor, or they just want a driver and they have a Bowtie candidate). I'm just suggesting that you have your Chapter (or a chapter close by) take a look at the car through the Flight Judging process. You will get a detailed, multiple hour examination of the car across the areas of Operations, Interior, Exterior, Mechanical and Chassis. From there, you can think about what you want to do within the organzation. There are those that just want to know what they have (one Flight event and done) and those who want it all, and a range inbetween. By big changes I mean things like: repainting the car, lifting the body off and restoring the chassis, pulling the motor, completely overhauling the interior, etc. If you want to change a clamp here and there or fix a leak, things like that aren't going to hurt or change how the car will do in Flight judging to much of any degree.

Why don't you do this. Can you describe your car a little better? Maybe a few pictures? That might help. Also, it would be good to understand more detail around what your goal is with the car. If you'd rather not post that kind of info, that's fine. You can email me directly. I'm happy to help.

Chris

[Don H.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Chris
the whole story and all the photos are already here ----->
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...-1971-Corvette!

[Joe C.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Marc, I mean to sign up for your local Chapter Judging Meet, and enter your car for Flight Judging. And yes, without much of anything changed. Where owners tend to struggle is they have a car that doesn't match their goals and expectations (they want a National Top Flight car that has a non-original motor, or they just want a driver and they have a Bowtie candidate). I'm just suggesting that you have your Chapter (or a chapter close by) take a look at the car through the Flight Judging process. You will get a detailed, multiple hour examination of the car across the areas of Operations, Interior, Exterior, Mechanical and Chassis. From there, you can think about what you want to do within the organzation. There are those that just want to know what they have (one Flight event and done) and those who want it all, and a range inbetween. By big changes I mean things like: repainting the car, lifting the body off and restoring the chassis, pulling the motor, completely overhauling the interior, etc. If you want to change a clamp here and there or fix a leak, things like that aren't going to hurt or change how the car will do in Flight judging to much of any degree.

Why don't you do this. Can you describe your car a little better? Maybe a few pictures? That might help. Also, it would be good to understand more detail around what your goal is with the car. If you'd rather not post that kind of info, that's fine. You can email me directly. I'm happy to help.

Chris

A car can easily get a TF with a NOM. In fact, a car can easily get a Duntov/McLellan Award with a NOM.

[Marc S.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Thanks Chris for the clarification. Don has linked a thread with information. I like the idea that I can get the car judged as is. Maybe change out the obvious easy things. Example putting factory radio back in. But not to get so involved with removing the body of the car. It would be a delight to win ANY award if car is judged as is or with minimal changes. You asked my goals and I am still deciding on this car. Will know more after Kissimmee. I did order my first change. That being a blue federal certification sticker. I ordered one. So I am on my way already.

[Chris E.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

A car can easily get a TF with a NOM. In fact, a car can easily get a Duntov/McLellan Award with a NOM.

I wouldn't say "easily". It is possible, but the rest of the car has to be dead on nuts. Most of the cars that I have seen with a NOM have other significant issues as well. Certainly, you are right in that if you bring the rest of the car up to perfect, the car can absorb the point deduct for not having an original motor. That is pretty unlikely to happen the first time out at Regionals though.

[Chris E.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Thanks Chris for the clarification. Don has linked a thread with information. I like the idea that I can get the car judged as is. Maybe change out the obvious easy things. Example putting factory radio back in. But not to get so involved with removing the body of the car. It would be a delight to win ANY award if car is judged as is or with minimal changes. You asked my goals and I am still deciding on this car. Will know more after Kissimmee. I did order my first change. That being a blue federal certification sticker. I ordered one. So I am on my way already.

Marc, I saw the other thread. Looks like a WONDERFUL car. For the Flight Judging, bring a chair, a pen, a pad of paper, and an open mind. It is a great learning experience (I learn more about my car each time I take it out to a Flight event).

[Michael J.]

[Michael W.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Yes, there are all kinds of NOMs. All the way from a crate motor, to a fully decked out "restoration" engine. I won't say judges have a different set of biases when they see each kind, but well…...

But each gets evaluated with the same set of rules. Biases are left at the door.

[Marc S.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

A car can easily get a TF with a NOM. In fact, a car can easily get a Duntov/McLellan Award with a NOM.

Yes, there are all kinds of NOMs. All the way from a crate motor, to a fully decked out "restoration" engine. I won't say judges have a different set of biases when they see each kind, but well…...

But each gets evaluated with the same set of rules. Biases are left at the door.

This is FANTASTIC, learning new things all day long!

Apparently, every item is worth a different amount of points.
Sure enough the judging sheets show this. So if the BIG items are all there, and in working condition as expected from the factory, a car could be far
off the mark and STILL get an award. I know of things that my car would need to get more points but it seems if I were to bring the car AS IS
I COULD end up with some type of award. However, getting the award would not be my main goal. I like the statement that was made to
establish a baseline and see where the next step should be. Very interesting!

[Michael J.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

But each gets evaluated with the same set of rules. Biases are left at the door.

[Chris E.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Marc,
Here is where you can download copies of the Flight Judging score sheets.

https://www.ncrs.org/membership/scoresheets.html

You'll want the Operations, Interior, Exterior, Mechanical and Chassis sheets for your model year. The summary sheet is just that, a summary. And the Performance Verification is something that you need to have at least one Flight attempt under your belt before attempting. And it is a prerequisite only if you intend to pursue the Duntov Mark of Excellence award.

As you'll see from the sheets, the engine has a lot of points attached to it. (613 out of the total 4,500 points for the whole car) After that, Operations is the easiest place to lose points. After that, paint is the next biggest area and from there, the points get pretty small pretty fast.

When you submit your car for Flight Judging, the judges will use their own knowledge plus the judging guide (available at the NCRS store, and I'd suggest you get a copy of it) to score your car against those sheets. So in that sense, the Flight Judging is an "open book test". We are here to help owners get the awards they want.

Here is a link to the store where the judging manual can be purchased. It looks like this => https://www.ncrs.org/shop/images/boo...anual 72 2.jpg

https://www.ncrs.org/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21&products_id=217

[Terry M.]

Re: What can I expect being an Observer Judge at a NCRS event?

Marc,
Here is where you can download copies of the Flight Judging score sheets.

https://www.ncrs.org/membership/scoresheets.html

You'll want the Operations, Interior, Exterior, Mechanical and Chassis sheets for your model year. The summary sheet is just that, a summary. And the Performance Verification is something that you need to have at least one Flight attempt under your belt before attempting. And it is a prerequisite only if you intend to pursue the Duntov Mark of Excellence award.

As you'll see from the sheets, the engine has a lot of points attached to it. ([b]613[b/] out of the total 4,500 points for the whole car) After that, Operations is the easiest place to lose points. After that, paint is the next biggest area and from there, the points get pretty small pretty fast.

When you submit your car for Flight Judging, the judges will use their own knowledge plus the judging guide (available at the NCRS store, and I'd suggest you get a copy of it) to score your car against those sheets. So in that sense, the Flight Judging is an "open book test". We are here to help owners get the awards they want.

Here is a link to the store where the judging manual can be purchased. It looks like this => https://www.ncrs.org/shop/images/boo...anual 72 2.jpg

https://www.ncrs.org/shop/index.php?...roducts_id=217

Chris,
Please share where you got 613 points for the engine.