1966/427 hot starter problem

[Craig S.]

Re: GM did the remote solenoid retrofit to all

Joe and Clem = sounds like my truck problem above may be cured by this fix, guess it is worth a try......Craig

[Clem Z.]

craig take the solenoid apart

and see if the large copper contacts that carry the high current to the starter are not all oxidized causing a high resistance. a lot of B+ cable sold at the auto parts have copper coated aluminum wire instead of all copper. when we ran drag cars with the battery in the trunk for weight transfer we always used welding cable to make the B+ lead because of the length to prevent current loss. feel your cable for getting hot while cranking and if so you need a better cable. i think the std supplied cable that comes with cars is marginal in current carry capacity to say the least

[Clem Z.]

craig take the solenoid apart

and see if the large copper contacts that carry the high current to the starter are not all oxidized causing a high resistance. a lot of B+ cable sold at the auto parts have copper coated aluminum wire instead of all copper. when we ran drag cars with the battery in the trunk for weight transfer we always used welding cable to make the B+ lead because of the length to prevent current loss. feel your cable for getting hot while cranking and if so you need a better cable. i think the std supplied cable that comes with cars is marginal in current carry capacity to say the least

[Stephen P.]

Re: GM did the remote solenoid retrofit to all

The remote solenoid solved the heat problem on my 65 coupe (327). The problem existed even after installation of a rebuilt starter. While there may have been some flaws in the rebuild, its working OK with the remote solenoid. Changing it back is a fairly simple change for those concerned with not being original.

[Stephen P.]

Re: GM did the remote solenoid retrofit to all

The remote solenoid solved the heat problem on my 65 coupe (327). The problem existed even after installation of a rebuilt starter. While there may have been some flaws in the rebuild, its working OK with the remote solenoid. Changing it back is a fairly simple change for those concerned with not being original.

[Michael H.]

Re: craig take the solenoid apart

Clem is exactly right. The positive battery cable on an older car can be the cause of slow crank when hot. This is not the case if we are talking about a "no crank, no click" problem but if we're still on the "slow crank" when hot topic, the cable itself and the starter field/armature are most likely the cause.

Because current flows OVER the surface of each strand in a cable, not through the strands, the number of strands becomes the factor, not the actual size of the strand or cable. Cheap aluminum strand cables have larger but fewer strands than the welding cable that Clem mentioned. That's why cheap low strand count aluminum jumper cables never seem to work well. Make a set out of welding cable and you will be amazed at the difference.

The "no crank, no click, no nothing" problem is a different issue entirely. That would be, as Joe Lucia described, a wiring and/or solenoid spring tension increase when hot issue.

[Michael H.]

Re: craig take the solenoid apart

Clem is exactly right. The positive battery cable on an older car can be the cause of slow crank when hot. This is not the case if we are talking about a "no crank, no click" problem but if we're still on the "slow crank" when hot topic, the cable itself and the starter field/armature are most likely the cause.

Because current flows OVER the surface of each strand in a cable, not through the strands, the number of strands becomes the factor, not the actual size of the strand or cable. Cheap aluminum strand cables have larger but fewer strands than the welding cable that Clem mentioned. That's why cheap low strand count aluminum jumper cables never seem to work well. Make a set out of welding cable and you will be amazed at the difference.

The "no crank, no click, no nothing" problem is a different issue entirely. That would be, as Joe Lucia described, a wiring and/or solenoid spring tension increase when hot issue.

[Terry M.]

cables

Michael and Clem have it right. Even a car that exhibits no obvious electrical problems can benefit from the addition of welding cable. I'll have to look, but I think for 12 volt systems 1/0 welding cable does the trick. Lights become brighter, and if the alternator output wire is upgraded also, the battery has a higher state of charge. One will notice the starter turns over faster as well. It is an almost standard upgrade for police cars, and even former police cars without all the electrical equipment of the in-service units.

[Terry M.]

cables

Michael and Clem have it right. Even a car that exhibits no obvious electrical problems can benefit from the addition of welding cable. I'll have to look, but I think for 12 volt systems 1/0 welding cable does the trick. Lights become brighter, and if the alternator output wire is upgraded also, the battery has a higher state of charge. One will notice the starter turns over faster as well. It is an almost standard upgrade for police cars, and even former police cars without all the electrical equipment of the in-service units.

[Michael H.]

Re: Boring Battery Cable Story

Terry,

I'm sure you well remember the 1984 NCRS road tour that started at the Hoover Dam and ended at Copper Mtn Colorado. We made the 1700 mile trip from Illinois to Hoover in our 425 HP 66 conv and during the road trip from Hoover to Copper, there were several stops along the way. Several were in canyons that we drove through in long lines of Corvettes at 5 MPH and several stops were made. At one, there were several members that were taking serious bets as to weather or not that maroon 66 BB car was ever going to start after a 15 minute heat soak in 115 degree temps. One member was already headed for his car to get his jumper cables for us because he was absolutely certain there was no way that car was going to fire up again. There were even several small block cars that wouldn't restart but we jumped in the 66 and the car cranked and fired with zero problems. One of the things that was done to the car before the trip was the positive battery cable. I had one made using fine strand welding cable. I never did the same to the negative cable because, for some reason, the positive is the critical one. I know just enough about electricity to stay away from it but I know that cable sure works.

If I remember correctly, the originall GM positive cable for a 66 and later big block had a different part number than a small block, even tho they looked to be roughly the same length. I have to assume they were made with a different strand count and size. I have to wonder if the current reproduction is different than the one for small block. Would be nice if the reproduction could be made with copper fine strand instead of the fat aluminum.

[Michael H.]

Re: Boring Battery Cable Story

Terry,

I'm sure you well remember the 1984 NCRS road tour that started at the Hoover Dam and ended at Copper Mtn Colorado. We made the 1700 mile trip from Illinois to Hoover in our 425 HP 66 conv and during the road trip from Hoover to Copper, there were several stops along the way. Several were in canyons that we drove through in long lines of Corvettes at 5 MPH and several stops were made. At one, there were several members that were taking serious bets as to weather or not that maroon 66 BB car was ever going to start after a 15 minute heat soak in 115 degree temps. One member was already headed for his car to get his jumper cables for us because he was absolutely certain there was no way that car was going to fire up again. There were even several small block cars that wouldn't restart but we jumped in the 66 and the car cranked and fired with zero problems. One of the things that was done to the car before the trip was the positive battery cable. I had one made using fine strand welding cable. I never did the same to the negative cable because, for some reason, the positive is the critical one. I know just enough about electricity to stay away from it but I know that cable sure works.

If I remember correctly, the originall GM positive cable for a 66 and later big block had a different part number than a small block, even tho they looked to be roughly the same length. I have to assume they were made with a different strand count and size. I have to wonder if the current reproduction is different than the one for small block. Would be nice if the reproduction could be made with copper fine strand instead of the fat aluminum.

[John H.]

Re: Boring Battery Cable Story

I've always used 1/0 fine-strand welding cable for all my project cars with rear-mounted batteries (street rods, Cobras, Grand Sport, etc.), with nice big tubular copper terminals (still have the big crimping tool); you wouldn't believe the difference a REAL conductor makes compared to a "normal" battery cable.

[John H.]

Re: Boring Battery Cable Story

I've always used 1/0 fine-strand welding cable for all my project cars with rear-mounted batteries (street rods, Cobras, Grand Sport, etc.), with nice big tubular copper terminals (still have the big crimping tool); you wouldn't believe the difference a REAL conductor makes compared to a "normal" battery cable.

[Terry M.]

[Terry M.]