C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

[Mark F.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

Joe, In a posting some years ago John Hinckley said that the 60% gloss was considered full gloss, and that was used for the interior items designated as 60% gloss, and left unbuffed. The exterior would use the same 60% gloss paint but of course be buffed. Gary

Gary, hmmm...not questioning JH here, but if it was true that the paints were identical, why would Ditzler have 2 different numbers for so many years (see my post above for the years involved)?

9248 as "60 Gloss"
9300 as exterior black

[Gary B.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

Gary, hmmm...not questioning JH here, but if it was true that the paints were identical, why would Ditzler have 2 different numbers for so many years (see my post above for the years involved)?

9248 as "60 Gloss"
9300 as exterior black

[Gary C.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

Paint chart; zero, low and full gloss colors
Paint-Flat_Gloss Definitions.jpg

[Gary B.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

Gary, hmmm...not questioning JH here, but if it was true that the paints were identical, why would Ditzler have 2 different numbers for so many years (see my post above for the years involved)?

9248 as "60 Gloss"
9300 as exterior black

9C15F4D5-AB73-4CE3-9D10-81D159C02F77.jpg

[Joseph S.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

Gary, There is absolutely "no way" that exterior colors were 60% gloss. Before or after buffing. Any amount of flatting agent added to a lacquer paint will continuously affect the outer gloss level of the paint.

Any exterior paint of that era was a 100% gloss level. Only the interior paints were formulated for 60% or 3% gloss level.

[Joseph S.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

Gary, C1 interior colors were full gloss. That's why your color chart lists the same formula #s.

[Gary B.]

[David H.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

Joe,

Based on John Hinckley’s research, I think he would have debated that point with you. John stated that 60 was full gloss, with no buffing on the interior items, and buffing above the trim line on the exterior. But this issue is well beyond my expertise, so I can only refer to what John said.

Gary

Gary

Not to belabor a point but, .....

If 60% was full gloss, why not just call it full gloss? (And 60% of what exactly?)

Dave

[Gary B.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

Gary

Not to belabor a point but, .....

If 60% was full gloss, why not just call it full gloss? (And 60% of what exactly?)

Dave

[Joseph S.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

I would love to see a prior post by John Hinckley stating that exterior paint is 60% gloss level.

[Gary B.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

I would love to see a prior post by John Hinckley stating that exterior paint is 60% gloss level.

Several days ago I found the post, perhaps with John’s post quoted within another post where he said 60% was full gloss, and the interior gloss items were “unbuffed”, John’s term. I spent several hours last night trying to find that post again, unsuccessfully. It might be in the Corvette Forum. Someone else can hopefully find it. I’ve spent enough time searching for it. It’s out there somewhere.

Gary

PS. But here’s a quote from Wayne Womble from 2012 on the Corvette Forum: “On the interior color that is listed as gloss, lacquer that is unbuffed it about 60% gloss”.

[Gary B.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

Here’s one quote from 2018 from John Hinckley from the Corvette Forum:

”The interior painted parts were sprayed with the same exterior lacquer that went on the outside of the car, which wasn't buffed”

And here’s a screen shot from a 2015 Corvette Forum posting by John.

1D3FC4D2-014D-4E71-BBFB-02E56DE7771D.jpg

These statements by John removed any doubt I had that the interior gloss items were painted with a different paint from the exterior. Higher gloss on the exterior was from buffing, not from a higher gloss paint formula.

Gary

[Mark F.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

Gary,

Are these the documents and links you were thinking about?

These links come from the Restoration Documents Database "Sticky Post" area at the top of the TDB page.

This first one was by Harry Jones about one year later...Wednesday, June 2, 2010
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/attachme...7&d=1499167967
he states: "INTERIOR PARTS Since these parts were not baked at reflow temperature and were not polished [note: translate as buffing], gloss level was less than the body’s exterior." ...note that interior parts back then were mostly metal...

This second one was by John Hinckley...MIDYEAR CORVETTE ASSEMBLY PROCESS - 2011 NCRS National Convention Technical Seminar - Presented by John Hinckley, Michigan Chapter
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/attachme...3&d=1499375207

he states: "Interior color small parts (including coupe garnish moldings, steering column upper covers and steering wheel hub, speaker grille/defroster outlet panel, radio console side panels and kickpad retainer strips) were painted separately in an off-line dry spray booth in the Trim Shop, baked for ten minutes at 180*F in an infra-red oven, and delivered to the line stations where they were subassembled and installed." note: no buffing is mentioned - and this says it was a separate booth - I'm thinking headlight bezels and cowl vent grills were painted on the floor of the car, right?

"Final color bake was a gas-fired oven, 45 minutes at 250*F (not hot enough for lacquer reflow, so polishing [note: translate as buffing] was required later). Since the Corvette fiberglass body couldn’t withstand the required lacquer reflow temperature (35 minutes at 325*F) used on steel- bodied cars, final polishing was necessary to create the same exterior gloss level. Polishing compound was brush-applied and buffed with wool pads, only above the body side feature line, in the open area between the end of the Paint Shop and the beginning of the Hard Trim Line."

[Gary B.]

[Gary B.]

Re: C2 Black Lacquer Paint: DDL-9248 vs DDL-9300

Joe,

I think part of the confusion stems from the fact that some people are referring to the paint when they say full gloss, not the finish look.

Gary