Change

[Shannon U.]

Re: Change

Why? I would like to answer this question as the Region II Director.

1.) Membership was denied notice of the 2022 annual meeting which was held on February 24, 2022.

2.) Board members were notified on February 15, 2022 that our Florida Board meeting would be the Annual meeting when the agenda and associated documents were sent out.

3.) Board members received SAME DAY notifications of topics that would be discussed in both our executive and general session on February 24, 2022.

So, my answer is…. our NCRS membership deserves better from us.

[Tom R.]

Re: Change

When individuals or groups feel their grievances are not being addressed by either the majority or those in power, then coalitions form with the intent of change. Examples are before and behind us, any of which could be argued regardless of your persuasion.

• Geopolitically, look only to Russia's attack on Ukraine; Russia has grievances
• Nationally, the 2020 Presidential election, Democrats had grievances...and Republicans as well LOL
• Governor 2021 elections...Virginia, Parents!
• And we have what is our "local" election, directors that represent member chapters.

As noted above, in a different phraseology, what is missing in these nearly 60 posts is a succinct record of the grievances that drove five board members to form a coalition and use the legitimate process of an election with majority rule to effect change. I suspect they have elements of a platform that will guide the new administration and I'm sure we would all welcome it.

[Jim L.]

Re: Change

10-4 and I have long thought (no disrespect to anyone involved present or past) that the President of NCRS should not also be allowed to hold a Regional Director position within the NCRS organizational structure. Another potential COI IMHO

I don't agree that is a conflict of interest. Both positions exist for the betterment of NCRS.

[Roy S.]

[Mark F.]

Re: Change

I don't agree that is a conflict of interest...

I didn't say it was.

Nor was I even implying anyone ever simultaneously holding both of those positions was ever involved in a COI in this context.

I said it was "...another potential COI IMHO"

Designing your management structure to remove duplicative decision-making roles performed by one individual - particularly for the President of such an organization - guarantees a COI between those two roles is impossible (or even the appearance of a COI, which can also be just as destructive).

That being said, I respect your opinion on the matter - I just don't see it the same way you do.

[Jim L.]

Re: Change

I didn't say it was.

Nor was I even implying anyone ever simultaneously holding both of those positions was ever involved in a COI in this context.

I said it was "...another potential COI IMHO"

Designing your management structure to remove duplicative decision-making roles performed by one individual - particularly for the President of such an organization - guarantees a COI between those two roles is impossible (or even the appearance of a COI, which can also be just as destructive).

That being said, I respect your opinion on the matter - I just don't see it the same way you do.

Well, I think you are splitting hairs......

[Gary B.]

Re: Change

There are numerous words that come to my mind to describe the ousting of the past President. The words I will share in a public forum are:


Unprofessional
Shameful
Embarrassing
Insulting
Disappointing
Saddening


Gary Beaupre (28818)

[Roy S.]

Re: Change

Jim, I tend to agree with you servings as a Director and President should not be a conflict of interest. Both serve the membership of NCRS, although I will tell you when I accepted the position of NCRS National Judging Chairman in 1996, I stepped down as the Vice-President and Director because I personally thought holding both offices could create a conflict of interest.

[Jim L.]

Re: Change

Jim, I tend to agree with you servings as a Director and President should not be a conflict of interest. Both serve the membership of NCRS, although I will tell you when I accepted the position of NCRS National Judging Chairman in 1996, stepped down as the Vice-President and Director because I personally thought holding both offices could create a conflict of interest.

We'll just have to be content to have different views on this, then. I simply do not recognize it as a conflict. Your action, did take away any such question, though.

[Ed D.]

Re: Change

I want to thank Mike for his many years of dedicated service through some very tough situations and times. I got from Mike's message as to what happened at the Board Meeting that this was not done with any consideration to Mike and his accomplishment. If this is the approved method by the NCRS bi laws then it was done properly and if the membership disapproves, the bi laws should be changed to a better method for succession. Shannon, I wish you a very successful presidency, and hope you move the NCRS in a direction that will support our present organization, with an eye to our future. I met Shannon some years ago when, at a National, she was doing the chassis at Terry's Advance Judging School. I as well as many others no nothing of her background or accomplishment. This may be a good time for her to tell us a little about herself. I don't think the reason people think Mike was not treated fairly is because his predecessor was a female. Its a matter of understanding what is right and wrong.
Ec

[Michael J.]

Re: Change

For those still looking for answers as to why this happened, contact your regional director and ask them.

That's a good idea Dick, since my Director voted to remove Mike, I would like to know what the rationale and justification for this was, and what discussions happened, when, between whom, and how it all transpired and was executed. If he will tell me the truth about it all.

[Gary J.]

Re: Change

That's a good idea Dick, since my Director voted to remove Mike, I would like to know what the rationale and justification for this was, and what discussions happened, when, between whom, and how it all transpired and was executed. If he will tell me the truth about it all.

[Jaime G.]

Re: Change

I am thoroughly enthused to read this "technical" discussion. With that critique made, please allow me to offer some clarification.

Background: I have been a National Team Leader and employee of NCRS (Restorer Editor). I know most/all of you know that.
I have judged at Bloomington Gold for longer than I have been a member of NCRS. I retired from BG this past year. Last June was my last judging for them. I retired because I feel i can no longer do a fair job of judging for physical reasons. I was a BG judge while I was an employee of NCRS, and I may have been what at that time BG called a Senior Judge while I was an employee; I would have to research timelines that I no longer remember in order to state that for certain. I have judged for the Muscle Car & Corvette Nationals (MCACN) since before I was an NCRS judge, and that includes two predecessor events under different names. That is my bona fides just so you know my experience -- not boasting, just what it is. I want you to know I am not observing from the sidelines. I have been in the trenches as this "hobby" has evolved.

Stick with me, I am sorry this is so long, but I want to be fair, so you all have relevant information -- and excuse me, but I am Irish. The end is in sight.

Bloomington Gold Senior Judge was the equivalent of NCRS Team Leader. Recently (within the past 7 or 8 years) Bloomington Gold re-named the Senior Judge position to Division Director. The job duties are still the equivalent of NCRS' Team Leader. The Division Director choses the judges, manages the judging paperwork and communicates with car owners just as an NCRS Team Leader does. The BG Division Director has nothing to do with managing the event or setting policy. In fact, NCRS Team Leaders have more to do with the judging policies of NCRS (through the Team Leaders meetings) than Division Directors have to do with Bloomington Gold judging policies. Full disclosure: there are BG Division Directors meetings. I have not been party to those, but when they were Senior Judges' meetings, they were nothing like NCRS Team Leader meetings, but they still had nothing to do with managing the event or the organization.

Bottom line: the titles (director) can be mixed up between the two organizations, but there is no similarity in duties or responsibilities at all.

If your judgement is going to be based on the amount of pay, consider that the BG Director receives less pay on an annual basis than an NCRS Team Leader does if that Team Leader attends more than three events. And while on an accounting basis the Team Leader receives reimbursement for expenses and the BG Director does get a 1099 each year, the dollar amounts are about the same. Neither Division Directors nor Judges were paid by Bloomington Gold in 2020, and each received $75 in 2021. You ask yurself why people would take the time and effort for so little reimbursement? Think back to the days of NCRS before there were judging points. We used get a t-shirt for our travel and time spent judging. Those of us who did that used to joke that it was remarkable what we would do for a t-shirt.

And as to the Muscle Car & Corvette Nationals: there is no equivalent position to Division Director or Team Leader. All judges at that event are given $40 as a reimbursement against expenses, and that doesn't even cover parking for two days of the event.

Now I will offer my opinion: NCRS directors are management and set policy. Bloomington Gold directors manage judges and set no policy. Neither do MCACN judges set policy or manage judges. I believe in this case there is no similarity to the previous NCRS Board conflict of interest actions. Having said that I offer no opinion on the previous actions in this regard.

Now I will go out on a limb and saw it out behind me: It is my belief that a lot and maybe all of this brew ha ha is because our new president is female. This used to be an all-male hobby. It used to be a lot of other things too. It is no longer any of those things. Put on your big boy pants and put blinders on as to who is running the ship. The president of NCRS, by him or herself is limited in the actions that they can take based upon the NCRS by-laws. Those by-laws have not changed today as far as I know. Decide if you like the direction the ship is going before you decide.

Now shot me if you will. I am prepared for that.

Thank you Terry, Mike thank you for your endless effort, Shannon best of luck in your new appointment.

[Jim L.]

Re: Change

Do any of you really want an NCRS prez who is willing to accept the position under such unethical, disturbing, disgusting, unprofessional, shameful, embarrassing, insulting, and saddening conditions?

Be sure to ask yourself what it says about the moral compass of anyone who would accept the job under such disgusting circumstances?

An NCRS member for 43 years and an invitee to join back when there were troubling allegations about the Classic Corvette Club '53 - '55, if this morally corrupt situation stands, I will NOT renew my membership.

[James G.]

Re: Change

The fact that this thread exists and is allowing the grievances to be aired is more than I have seen in other similar situations. A void would result in much more toxicity.

I have found that when conflicts (real or perceived) are brought into the light they are less likely to result in an actual conflict.