Change

[G B.]

Disgusting

I've been an NCRS member for a while. For an even longer period, I've understood the clear difference between honorable and underhanded behavior. This kind of slimy crap from the NCRS Board is unacceptable. No good will come of it. It isn't just extremely insulting to Mike, it WILL discourage some good people from participating heavily in the NCRS in the future.

[Ed N.]

Re: Change

I am thoroughly enthused to read this "technical" discussion. With that critique made, please allow me to offer some clarification.

Background: I have been a National Team Leader and employee of NCRS (Restorer Editor). I know most/all of you know that.
I have judged at Bloomington Gold for longer than I have been a member of NCRS. I retired from BG this past year. Last June was my last judging for them. I retired because I feel i can no longer do a fair job of judging for physical reasons. I was a BG judge while I was an employee of NCRS, and I may have been what at that time BG called a Senior Judge while I was an employee; I would have to research timelines that I no longer remember in order to state that for certain. I have judged for the Muscle Car & Corvette Nationals (MCACN) since before I was an NCRS judge, and that includes two predecessor events under different names. That is my bona fides just so you know my experience -- not boasting, just what it is. I want you to know I am not observing from the sidelines. I have been in the trenches as this "hobby" has evolved.

Stick with me, I am sorry this is so long, but I want to be fair, so you all have relevant information -- and excuse me, but I am Irish. The end is in sight.

Bloomington Gold Senior Judge was the equivalent of NCRS Team Leader. Recently (within the past 7 or 8 years) Bloomington Gold re-named the Senior Judge position to Division Director. The job duties are still the equivalent of NCRS' Team Leader. The Division Director choses the judges, manages the judging paperwork and communicates with car owners just as an NCRS Team Leader does. The BG Division Director has nothing to do with managing the event or setting policy. In fact, NCRS Team Leaders have more to do with the judging policies of NCRS (through the Team Leaders meetings) than Division Directors have to do with Bloomington Gold judging policies. Full disclosure: there are BG Division Directors meetings. I have not been party to those, but when they were Senior Judges' meetings, they were nothing like NCRS Team Leader meetings, but they still had nothing to do with managing the event or the organization.

Bottom line: the titles (director) can be mixed up between the two organizations, but there is no similarity in duties or responsibilities at all.

If your judgement is going to be based on the amount of pay, consider that the BG Director receives less pay on an annual basis than an NCRS Team Leader does if that Team Leader attends more than three events. And while on an accounting basis the Team Leader receives reimbursement for expenses and the BG Director does get a 1099 each year, the dollar amounts are about the same. Neither Division Directors nor Judges were paid by Bloomington Gold in 2020, and each received $75 in 2021. You ask yurself why people would take the time and effort for so little reimbursement? Think back to the days of NCRS before there were judging points. We used get a t-shirt for our travel and time spent judging. Those of us who did that used to joke that it was remarkable what we would do for a t-shirt.

And as to the Muscle Car & Corvette Nationals: there is no equivalent position to Division Director or Team Leader. All judges at that event are given $40 as a reimbursement against expenses, and that doesn't even cover parking for two days of the event.

Now I will offer my opinion: NCRS directors are management and set policy. Bloomington Gold directors manage judges and set no policy. Neither do MCACN judges set policy or manage judges. I believe in this case there is no similarity to the previous NCRS Board conflict of interest actions. Having said that I offer no opinion on the previous actions in this regard.

Now I will go out on a limb and saw it out behind me: It is my belief that a lot and maybe all of this brew ha ha is because our new president is female. This used to be an all-male hobby. It used to be a lot of other things too. It is no longer any of those things. Put on your big boy pants and put blinders on as to who is running the ship. The president of NCRS, by him or herself is limited in the actions that they can take based upon the NCRS by-laws. Those by-laws have not changed today as far as I know. Decide if you like the direction the ship is going before you decide.

Now shot me if you will. I am prepared for that.

Well said!

[Jim L.]

Re: Change

Now I will go out on a limb and saw it out behind me: It is my belief that a lot and maybe all of this brew ha ha is because our new president is female.
.

NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The issue is the sleazy way in which Mike Ingham was kicked to the curb after years of dedicated service.

[Jim L.]

Re: Change

Agreed, I'm excited about her leadership and will what I can do help her succeed.

So you are OK with the underhanded manner by which she attained the title of president?

[Shannon U.]

Re: Change

Sorry for maybe being a little dense on all of this, but as a result of reviewing the By-Laws (ARTICLE IV - BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND BOARD MEETINGS January 10, 2022 version), I’m now confused about my previous posts regarding an individual member serving simultaneous roles as an officer/manager/leader. In other words, does NCRS require the President to also be a Regional Representative? (NCRS website calls them Directors)? More discussion follows below…https://www.ncrs.org/training/docume...RS-By-Laws.pdf

Regarding subsections 4.2, 4.3 and 4.6 below, I have added some underlining emphasis to demonstrate my confusion, as also evidenced by my questions:

4.2 The Board shall consist of nine elected Regional Representatives, each of whom is elected
for a three-year term. Each year three of the nine Regional Representatives are subject to reelection. Representatives are not subject to term limits. < Does the 1^st sentence mean the President cannot be a member of the Board of Directors (BoD) unless he/she is also a Regional Representative? (see next section and question as well)

4.3 The President and Secretary of NCRS are respectively the Chairman and Secretary of the
Board. < So, does this mean we can have an NCRS President who is NOT also a Regional Representative? (see next section and question as well)

If the answer above is YES, section 4.6 states the following: “The President is a full voting member of the board.” <By exclusion, I assume this means the Secretary is a non-voting member of the BoD? If that is the case and the President is NOT also a Regional Representative, that means there could be 10 voting BoD members, correct? Who breaks a tie?

Final question: If an NCRS President is also a Regional Representative and is not re-elected as such for another 3-year Director term while continuing to serve in the role as President, does that require that President to then appoint a replacement Regional Representative caused by the non-reinstatement vote by the membership? (which then also goes back to 10 voting board members...)

Just trying to understand...

The verbiage of Regional Directors with Regional Representatives is used interchangeable (Article 1.1 f and g) of the current NCRS By-Laws dated January 10, 2022, which are available on this website.

The President of the NCRS is required to be a member of the board (Article 6.1).

The President is elected by the membership of the board by the directors which are represented by the nine designated geographic regions (Article 5.2).

The Secretary and Financial officer positions are not voting members of the board while holding Club officer elected positions by the board annually. (Article 5.1).

The President is a full voting member of the board (Article 4.6).

If the duties of the President are not able to be performed (for any reason), then pursuant to Article 6.2 the Vice President assumes those duties as the President which would address your final question.

I hope that may help with your questions.

Shannon

[Mark F.]

Re: Change

...I hope that may help with your questions.

Shannon

Shannon,

Yes it does and I thank you for your explanations.

I'm still not sure I completely understand the logic behind requiring simultaneous dual roles (won't you have enough to do just as President?), but I need not belabor the point anymore.

No need for further reply...I'm satisfied I now understand the By-Laws in regard to my previous posts and inquiries.

[Roy S.]

Re: Change

To all who will listen, and to those that seem to think what happened is OK, including you Terry a past “Lifetime Achievement Award Recipient” just as me. Please Terry playing the (the backlash happened because she is a Female card – does not hold water in my world, ask Joan Burnett or Marilyn Heitzman who encouraged them to run for not only Regional Director but in the case of Marilyn President, I’m sure they will tell you it was me.)
What transpired at the annual board meeting was held in complete secrecy until the annual election of offices was conducted. Our sitting president was ambushed by John Ballard with the nomination of Shannon Urton as a candidate for President. There had been no written communication to the Directors informing them of her intentions to seek the presidency before that vote although the wires are burning up with her communication to them since trying to explain her position. Shannon was not even present at the Board Meeting, but attended virtually I assume by phone, strange a new presidential candidate did not even make it to the Board Meeting. Is that because she did not want to pull the trigger in her smoking gun accusations against our President Mike Ingham who actually appointed her director not once but twice, or because she did not have the intestinal fortitude to appear in front of the board? I am sure she has an excuse for her absence, this was a deceitful well-executed coup. Shannon have you ever attended an annual board meeting as an elected director? I know you were appointed by Mike Ingham to replace Paul Oslansky, I know in the next election cycle you were beaten by John Perrette, I know you were appointed by Mike Ingham to replace John Perrette when he was replaced for due cause. I know that you ran unopposed in the last election cycle, but had you attended as an elected director would this have been your first annual board meeting since your actual election by the membership? That brings us to one of your other voters, Patricia Kropac had Patricia ever attended an annual board meeting as an elected Director or was this the first, quite a vote to accomplish in your first five minutes of service at an annual board meeting Mam, you ambushed one of the hardest working presidents to ever serve NCRS. Then we come to John Ballard, what was your reason sir? Do you honestly think Mike Ingham deserved what you bestowed on him? Now we have a director that voted in the coup who apparently has claimed because of a choice of words by Mike Ingham when blindsided, sorry Mr. Ridge I do not buy that are you telling the organization you had no information regarding the impending coup? This was well orchestrated kept secret and was a complete blind side.

It is atrocious and can be remedied only one way by resignation of the newly elected president.

Roy Sinor
Past Regional Director - seven years
Past Vice President - two years
Past Activities Chairman - two years
Past 1967 co Team Leader - four years
Past 1967 Team Leader - three years
Retired NCRS National Judging Chairman - seventeen years
Past Document Services Manger - five years
Past National Convention Judges Meal sponsor
Creator of original NCRS Judging Retreat and its content
Foundation Diamond member
Lifetime Achievement Award recipient 2013

Total length of service and years to attend Board Meetings 24 there was overlap in positions in those years. Ms. Urton, I missed one annual Board Meeting during that time and that was at the direction of the President and Board of Directors, not a meeting where the setting President was blindsided on my behalf.

[Ed N.]

Re: Change

smurton@cinci.rr.com. Yes I have a secondary account at smurton@hotmail.com. My home telephone number is 513.836.3686 and my cell is 513.310.2621. Thank you in advance!

Well said. Congrats and you have my full support.

[Jim L.]

Re: Change

Well said. Congrats and you have my full support.

I'll ask again...... So you are OK with the underhanded manner by which Ms Urton attained the title of president?

[David H.]

Re: Change

This discussion re bylaws is just dancing around the real issues.

I believe transition vote was per our bylaws, so that is fait accompli.


"Conflict of Interest" - Letter of the Law vs Perception. You can dissect and analyze words all day - folks can/will interpret and argue.

However, to me, perception is paramount. It is what it looks like.


My question is WHY? What changes are in-store for NCRS members?


From an earlier Tech Board post:

Going forward questions. What changes will membership see?

What are we doing now, that we're going to stop doing?

What aren't we doing now, that we're going to start doing?

re NCRS personnel - intention to make changes or intention to avoid making changes?

i.e. If same ol' same ol', why make a change?

Folks desiring this change have an agenda. Just what is that agenda?

Dave

[Jim L.]

Re: Change

The verbiage of Regional Directors with Regional Representatives is used interchangeable (Article 1.1 f and g) of the current NCRS By-Laws dated January 10, 2022, which are available on this website.

The President of the NCRS is required to be a member of the board (Article 6.1).

The President is elected by the membership of the board by the directors which are represented by the nine designated geographic regions (Article 5.2).

The Secretary and Financial officer positions are not voting members of the board while holding Club officer elected positions by the board annually. (Article 5.1).

The President is a full voting member of the board (Article 4.6).

If the duties of the President are not able to be performed (for any reason), then pursuant to Article 6.2 the Vice President assumes those duties as the President which would address your final question.

I hope that may help with your questions.

Shannon

Ms. Urton, do you ever intend to address the matter of the elephant in the room?

[Jim L.]

Re: Change

It is atrocious and can be remedied only one way by resignation of the newly elected president..

AMEN, Roy. And the sooner the better for the sake of the club.

[Jim L.]

Re: Change

Not the ncrs i joined in 1976.

Nor the wonderful club I joined in 1979.

[Michael J.]

Re: Change

I have been around only since early 2009, and I am very concerned about all this.

[Phillip P.]

Re: Change

Nor the club I joined in 2004.