Change

[Ed N.]

Re: Change

As a new member both national and local (Texas Chapter) I really have no dog in this hunt. However it is disappointing to see how political and disingenuous the election process for leadership appears to be.

Don't allow gossip to discourage you. Enjoy the meets and your Corvette. Elections always have many point of views. It's the nature of the beast. Especially, with those that end up in the losing side. Based on my understanding, the the proper election procedures were adhered to.

[Phillip P.]

Re: Change

This cabal will most likely generate the need for future "Changes" to the By Laws.

[Michael J.]

Re: Change

Indeed, elections have consequences, not only for the losers, but for the winners as well. We average NCRS members had no voice in this election, only our elected Directors voted here. The only thing we average NCRS members, who do not belong to any of the cliques, can do is to vote on the Directors who did all this. The facts of the situation do not seem to be in dispute, so each member needs to ask themselves: "Did your elected Director represent your views for the future and best interests of the organization, and represent your values and character in carrying it out?". Then vote the next time you get a chance according to your answer.

[Terry M.]

Re: Change

I posted a similar thread to this last night, it lasted less than ten minutes. With all do respect it deserves some answers before being deleted again. With our new president change, I am told that we currently have a President of NCRS that also serves as a Director of Bloomington Gold! How is that not a conflict of interest? what happened to our directors and employee code of Ethics? Once again it appears rather than answer simple questions our directors chose to delete content with no concern for freedom of speech.

Roy,
I would swear I saw reference to Williamsburg and Dan Gale earlier in your post. For me it was a rough couple days in Florida, but I don't think I am in that bad shape. I ask because I am concerned about my deterioration and want to find if I am deteriorating faster.

[Mark F.]

Re: Change

Roy, I would swear I saw reference to Williamsburg and Dan Gale earlier in your post. For me it was a rough couple days in Florida, but I don't think I am in that bad shape. I ask because I am concerned about my deterioration and want to find if I am deteriorating faster.

Terry, if I'm understanding what you want, see Post #25 with Dan Gale in it on Page 1 - I'm sorry to butt in on your post if you only wanted Roy to answer this...

[Mike M.]

Re: Change

roy's post regarding dan gale was posted at 4:11 on 2/25/22. mike

[Terry M.]

Re: Change

Terry,
That is correct, and as I'm sure you have been told my response when asked if I would serve was "yes, reluctantly." Anyone who knows me should know that my use of the word "reluctantly" was not serious and was not meant as a signal that I was ready to step down. I was caught completely off guard by John Ballard's nomination of Shannon. Anyone who bothered to ask me what my intentions were with regard to the presidency of the NCRS knew that my desire was to serve through the 2024 Convention when the club will celebrate its 50th anniversary. I understand that Ralph Ridge is citing my use of the word "reluctantly" as the reason for his vote, so I guess I just have myself to blame. Sharyl and I have given more than seven years of our lives working for the betterment of this club. I think Jim Lockwood said it best, I just feel we were tossed out like yesterday's trash.
Mike

[Michael J.]

Re: Change

Wow Terry, that a lot if information and insights about NCRS I didn't know about, and a lot to process right now.

[Terry M.]

Re: Change

Roy
i thought we were friends and i hope we can continue as such. Not only are we both Lifetime Achievement Award recipients, but I worked for you as Team Leader when you were National Judging Chai8rman. We had the betterment of the organization as out common goal then and I believe we still do. You helped me as i moved from Team Leader to Restorer Editor. And I am sure you remember the trauma, perhaps not as vividly as I, when I was forced out of the Editor's position.

You are taking my comments about Shannon's gender far more personally than I intended. I apologize for not being clearer on that point. I could have, and should have been.

When I wrote that post it was Friday evening of the Florida Regional and my perspective was from that event. I noted all through that day members huddling in intense small groups leaning in so their conversations could only be heard by the small group. Perhaps they were discussing the weather, but I doubt it. After judging that day I overheard (it was hard to miss) conversation at the hotel bar that was more explicit. Of course I only witnessed one bar and that was only briefly. Perhaps at other hotels the bar conversation was different. You may weigh the chances of that differently than I. Certainly not everyone in these conversations was motivated by gender bias, and certainly there are other motivations at play. For example I can understand why you are especially sensitive to conflict of interest issues.

i well remember your situation with the conflict-of-interest accusations as i also well remember Dan Gale's. Those experiences, even though i was only an observer to both, have left a lasting impression on me and are a major part of the reason I refuse to become involved in the politics of this organization. So I am particularly sensitive to anything involving even the appearance of politics in this organization. I realize someone has to do it, but it will not be me.

I don't expect anyone who is motivated by gender bias, even if that is among many other motivations, to state so explicitly. I am well aware of the involvement off the women you mention although I wasn't aware of your involvement. Good for you.

I was told that board meeting was hastily arranged, I understand by Mike himself. (Note add: Since this post I have found out that the meeting WAS announced in a timely fashion. My apologizes for my error.) I have avoided mentioning that because I was not aware of that until yesterday. I also hesitate to mention it because even if I had known about it I would not have attended given my aversion to NCRS politics. Thus I have no complaint. You mentioned it, so now I will. I had more than my fill of NCRS politics in the struggle to get the NCRS Foundation (not to be confused with the NCRS Foundation Joan Burnet is associated with) off the ground. Also I vividly remember the days (literally) of 12 to 16 hour board meetings when I was Editor and required to attend as an NCRS employee. You might remember some of those meetings from your perspective as well.

Roy, I find it unusual that this meeting that turned out so controversial, was not publicized to the membership. I might have missed the announcement since I don't usually attend; just like I couldn't find your post about Dan Gale without help this morning.

Your questions to the listed board members make it sound like you believe a board member should not vote in the presidential election without experiencing other annual board meetings. Is that what you intended?

Edit add: Just an observation: You were involved with a for profit entity. Dan Gale and Jon Brookmyer were involved with not-for-profit entities. I know you and Jon Brookmyer were given the choice -- resign or be fired -- I don't know exactly Dan's situation in that regard, but the end result was the same. I also don't know if there may have been other people charged with conflict of interest over the years, but I know of these three. Each time it was major trauma to the organization and NCRS lost the services of good people who had worked hard for the betterme3nt of NCRS. To a cynic like me it looks like when someone steps on someone's toes conflict of interest is readily at hand.

Another observation: I know at some time you judged for Bloomington Gold, as have I and many other NCRS Team Leaders and board members. Some of us have been Senior Judges and some are Division Directors. The fact is NCRS is the training ground for Bloomington Gold judges and either Senior Judges or Division Directors, as you know. In the past I here have been times when I have been in conversations with various National Team Leaders (possibly even you) where we were proud of the fact that NCRS trained a majority of the Bloomington Gold participants since Bloomington Gold has no training system in product knowledge. Those with leadership skills tend to be leaders in whatever endeavor they pursue. I know we will not agree, but my view is we should take advantage of those leaders when they surface. Do you remember John Woods?

[Terry M.]

Re: Change

roy's post regarding dan gale was posted at 4:11 on 2/25/22. mike

"Terry, if I'm understanding what you want, see Post #25 with Dan Gale in it on Page 1 - I'm sorry to butt in on your post if you only wanted Roy to answer this...
thx, Mark"

Thanks for your help guys.
I found it on my page 3. I remember one of the administrators telling someone there are different ways to gather the posts on a thread. I am sure that is why my location is different than yours. I am beginning to hava a hard time following this whole thing.

[Roy S.]

Re: Change

Why? I would like to answer this question as the Region II Director.

1.) Membership was denied notice of the 2022 annual meeting which was held on February 24, 2022.

2.) Board members were notified on February 15, 2022 that our Florida Board meeting would be the Annual meeting when the agenda and associated documents were sent out.

3.) Board members received SAME DAY notifications of topics that would be discussed in both our executive and general session on February 24, 2022.

So, my answer is…. our NCRS membership deserves better from us.

Shannon, you have successfully started your own thread where you are continuing to list as reasons for your ambush simple things that I think are not true.

"Membership was denied notice of the 2022 annual meeting which was held on February 24, 2022."

Did not page 50 of the Winter Restorer which had the minutes from the Frisco meeting include that very information? I submit it did the last line says "date of the next board meeting: Thursday February 24th, 2022 in Lakeland, FL."

I rest my case - you should come up with a valid reason to execute a setting President.

[Roy S.]

Re: Change

Roy
i thought we were friends and i hope we can continue as such. Not only are we both Lifetime Achievement Award recipients, but I worked for you as Team Leader when you were National Judging Chai8rman. We had the betterment of the organization as out common goal then and I believe we still do. You helped me as i moved from Team Leader to Restorer Editor. And I am sure you remember the trauma, perhaps not as vividly as I, when I was forced out of the Editor's position.

You are taking my comments about Shannon's gender far more personally than I intended. I apologize for not being clearer on that point. I could have, and should have been.

Terry in my world we will always be friends no harm no foul, but you played the Female card and I felt the need to respond, this is about Ethics and the Ambush of a setting president pretty much speaks to those ethics, I have no desire to belong to an organization that tolerates that type of action by the newly created coup leadership.

[Michael J.]

Re: Change

Yes Roy, it appears we have 5 directors who do not want any discussions and debate about things.

[Bob K.]

Re: Change

Congratulations Shannon on your election. It is nice to see the democratic process work. However, I am extremely concerned about you being the President of NCRS while at the same time being a paid director for Bloomington Gold. For me this is a conflict of interest. Sort of like a person being the Chairman of Coco-Cola while at the same time being on the board of directors for Pepsi Cola. For the sake of both organizations, you ought to resign one of the posts.

Bob Kinstrey
Chairman, CCNCRS

[Michael I.]

Re: Change

Terry,
I am trying to stay out of this fray, but when factually incorrect statements are made that reflect on me and how I went about my job as NCRS President I just have to respond. You made the following statement in your response to Roy: "I was told that board meeting was hastily arranged, I understand by Mike himself. I have avoided mentioning that because I was not aware of that until yesterday." First off, NCRS Board meetings at the Florida Regional have been standard operating practice since I joined the Board in 2012. Second off, this particular meeting was discussed and agreed upon at the Board's meeting in Frisco, Texas last October. Further, the meeting date and location were included in the minutes of that meeting published in the Winter 2022 edition of the Restorer (see p.50). I communicated with the entire Board membership on January 20, 2022, reminding them about the meeting date and location, asking them to confirm their plans to attend, soliciting agenda items, and requesting reports be sent to me by February 11, 2022, so I could include them with the final agenda. The final agenda was sent out on February15, 2022, with all of the attachments I had at that time. I arranged every Board meeting myself starting when I got the job in 2014, as did Dick before me, and Vito before him. Not sure who you thought would be handling that task. In any case, there was nothing "hastily arranged" about the meeting, and the membership was properly notified well in advance, contrary to Shannon's statement earlier in this thread. Had she actually shown up for the meeting she would have observed that we had almost as many members in the room as we had Board members at the table. Before you make statements about me or my actions, please try to get your facts straight.
Mike