Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

[Lyndon S.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

Where I live in southeast Texas Conoco stations have big signs saying their gas does not have ethanol in it.

[Michael J.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

Where I live in southeast Texas Conoco stations have big signs saying their gas does not have ethanol in it.

Excellent! That's my old company (retired after 30+ years) doing what is right. That is about all I buy anymore for any of my cars when I can make the 15 mile trip to get it. BTW, some of my ZR1 buddies track their cars with E85 now, and of course the engines are starting to fall apart, the gas tanks and other internals will go next. Some people just won't listen....

[Timothy B.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

I had a similar experience in my 1957 shortly after I bought it in 1983. I put in 91 Octane Gasahol and had a vapor lock problem out on the interstate highway. Had to wait for it to cool off then restart. When looking at the glass fuel filter bowl, you could see the vapor bubbles. This was primarily from the alcohol and preferential boiling. One of the reasons the new FI systems don't have the problems of the past is that these systems re-circulate the fuel. What isn't used is returned to the tank and cycled back. This provides a degree of cooling to the fuel and surpresses the boil off problem. I rebuilt my 57 engine two years ago and went to lower compression since getting AV gas was a real pain and Octane boosters were not satisfactory. It ran okay on the 91 Octane with Ethanol and did not vapor lock. However, this past summer I found a station selling no-alcohol 91 Octane gas so started using that. Car runs better, more power output, idles a whole lot better and sold me on using in the future. Of course the price is higher. But so was AV gas. Anyway, my 2 cents worth.

The gasoline recirculation does help cool the fuel but a very important overlooked thing in modern cars is that the fuel pump is located in the tank thus providing for fuel PRESSURE from the pump through the lines to the engine, I am not sure how much pressure modern fuel injection systems are under but I think it's 40-50 lbs. The boiling point is raised when fluid is under pressure, think about the radiator cap and the cooling system.

In our old cars with mechanical pumps the system is under a slight vacuum (low pressure) through the lines which can lower the boiling point of fuel. Then it's pumped to the carburetor and with the needle and seat closed it's at atmospheric pressure.

[Michael W.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

I would never ever never use it a Classic car .Look up E85 on the Web it is called wood Alcohol.Yes some drunks have died from drinking it .

This is getting silly. Nobody is talking about using E85, never mind drinking it any more than a person would drink straight gasoline. Wood alcohol is methanol, not ethanol.

[Michael G.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

This thread is two years old. Let's end it with some indisputable facts. Ethanol is ethyl alcohol. It is a chemical different from other alcohols and different from anything found in the mixture that we historically called "gasoline". When mixed with gasoline, it will affect the performance we expect from "gasoline". Those changes will be found in several areas, including power, mileage, fuel evaporation, water absorption, and resistance to corrosion.

Those differences in performance are unavoidable, no matter what the percentage of the ethanol mixture.

Those changes affect some engines more than others, depending largely on the percentage of ethanol and the mixture of other chemical additives. Some drivers will see no difference in their cars, others will see significant differences. Some cars will not be damaged, others, particularly those more sensitive to evaporation and/or with easily corrodible components, may see major damage or performance problems.

The bottom line: THERE IS NO SINGLE ANSWER. Learn about ethyl alcohol's affects on your particular engine and its individual fuel system before using gasoline with ethanol or YOU MAY PAY FOR THAT ignorance in expensive repairs and/or lousy performance.

Those of you who see no adverse affects, I'm happy for you. Please don't reply here by extrapolating your good experience to the global family of automobiles. There is evidence in both camps, so let's let everyone do their own due diligence...

Thanks,

[Richard M.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

For what its worth I was talking to a local DF/W restoration shop owner, he tested local brands of gas all were supposed to be no more than 10% ethanol, they were all higher, one was Chevron and it tested at 30% ethanol! It might be worth ones while to test your fuel. Richard

[Duke W.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

What "restoration shop", and what "tests" were run?

Neither modern nor vintage cars other than "flexfuel" vehicles that will run on any gasoline blend from E0 to E85 would operate properly on a blend of 30 percent ethanol.

The EPA regulatory limit is 10 percent by volume ethanol in gasoline, and no major oil company would consciously violate this regulation due to the substantial fines that could be levied by EPA notwithstanding the bad publicity.

Let's not use the NCRS TDB to promulgate unsubstantiated claims from unnamed sources!

Duke

[Richard M.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

Duke, the restoration shop owner is Carr Campbell of Carr's Corvettes & Customs he told me this at the recent Lone Star Regional at Frisco Tx. where he had his Top Flight 1970 and a couple of resto-mod C1's on display, I didn't ask him what his method of testing was, I would suggest you call Mr. Campbell at 214-632-2270 or email him thru his website so you can determine if his claim is truely unsubstantiated, he is a courteous gentleman and he would gladly give you any information you would want to know. Best regards, Richard Mynatt

[Geary T.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

There are some local gas stations in Middle Tennessee (Murfreesboro) that advertise selling 100% gasoline with no alcohol. I have often wondered if that
was actually the case. I have been buying some to use in my cars that set for extended periods including my 57 Corvette. Its about $1.50 higher per gallon.
My question is there a easy litmus test to check to determine if it 100% gas?

[Dick W.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

There are some local gas stations in Middle Tennessee (Murfreesboro) that advertise selling 100% gasoline with no alcohol. I have often wondered if that
was actually the case. I have been buying some to use in my cars that set for extended periods including my 57 Corvette. Its about $1.50 higher per gallon.
My question is there a easy litmus test to check to determine if it 100% gas?

You will find very little 100% gas, you will end up with a little dilution from old tanks, transport, etc. There are kits on fleabay to test gasoline.

[Domenic T.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

What "restoration shop", and what "tests" were run?

Neither modern nor vintage cars other than "flexfuel" vehicles that will run on any gasoline blend from E0 to E85 would operate properly on a blend of 30 percent ethanol.

The EPA regulatory limit is 10 percent by volume ethanol in gasoline, and no major oil company would consciously violate this regulation due to the substantial fines that could be levied by EPA notwithstanding the bad publicity.

Let's not use the NCRS TDB to promulgate unsubstantiated claims from unnamed sources!

Duke

Duke,I think you hit it on the head with your 1st sentence about operating properly on 30%. That might be the reason (30%) that some are complaining about performance! I don't think the oil co's are afraid of fines DOM

[Michael W.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

My question is there a easy litmus test to check to determine if it 100% gas?

In a word, no. That's why people get hokey results showing '30% ethanol'.

[John H.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

I don't think the oil co's are afraid of fines DOM

Dom -

The oil companies/refineries don't add ethanol to the gasoline (ethanol can't be pipelined); the shared "commodity" gasoline has the 10% ethanol added at the wholesale distribution point where it's pumped into the retail delivery tank truck.

[Adam S.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

I second that, my neighbor owns a small fuel distributer company, He lives across the street from me & sells pure gas to all the smaller stations and such, he told me they do not mix in the corn like a lot of the others do, also told me they are screwing the people watering down the gas because of federal subs.. I going to bring the 57 to his yard to fill her up one of these days.....

[Stuart F.]

Re: Ethanol - adding fuel to the fire

I buy my non-ethanol at a staion near a large Florida lake and, in fact, it is for the boats that populate the area that he sells it for in the first place. Now if they aren't a picky lot to attest as to whether they are getting the good stuff I don't know who is. Many of them also do some ocean hops too as we're only about 45 minutes away.

Stu Fox