NCRS and the clones

[Loren L.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

With regard to "facts", let's try to remember that it took Chevrolet about 20+ years to admit that they had built 23,564 1965 Corvettes instead of 23,562......

[Mark D.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Why then wouldn't the OP's cloned ZL1 be judged as 'typical' without the extra layer of proof? Dan

Dan,

I'm not trying to be cute but, I don't know any other languages, just English. If you didn't get what I was trying to say, I don't know any other way to say it.

Regards,

Mark

[Wayne W.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Unfortunately I think this thread is a result of the thing going on on the other Forum.

[Lyndon S.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

I would bet you that a lot more of those cars, are out there than you think. Sure the money might not be all that great of investment on the counterfeiters part. But I am sure people clone small block base cars all day. Especially in the Mid Years


No NCRS does not certify cars this is a hobby . If someone sells a rare car then the buyer should demand to see more than a POS paper and POS ribbon from the NCRS. The POS award is a snap shot in time. I mean what about the cars that use, some or borrow

[Lyndon S.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

what is going on? what other forum?

[Wayne W.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

I guess not then.

[Michael W.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

I guess not then.

I'm surprised too.

[Clark K.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Guys,
Patrick is correct, NCRS at least at the Regional or national level would require some sort of documentation in this case, this is a hobby we are not going to judge and offer an award to a very, very rare car without some sort of supporting documentation.

Roy, I own a '65 that has rare options. I have submitted it for flight judging at the upcoming National convention. What sort of documentation will I need for my red/red L76 A/C Coupe?
-Clark

[G A.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Dan,

I'm not trying to be cute but, I don't know any other languages, just English. If you didn't get what I was trying to say, I don't know any other way to say it.

Regards,

Mark

Mark,

No offense taken. My first language is English too. I have always been a VERY literal individual when it comes to words. No, I obviously didn't get the jest of your post, my apologies. I see myself as a rookie in this 'hobby', not seasoned by the experience and wisdom gained by you and others from judging and assisting others with these cars. So, my perceptions will probably change with time.

However, I think it is wrong for us to believe that the awards presented do not authenticate, certify, verify, acknowledge, (pick the word that suits you) that a particular car is what it is when presented and awarded with a "Top Flight", "Survivor etc., to many many folks in the automotive world. I know that this part of the discussion has diverged from the OP's question, sorry!!

EDIT: I simply think it wrong that one member could be held to a higher standard of proof than another.
Dan

[Bill M.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

I was always under the impression that cars were judged to showroom standards. Hubcaps on etc. The ZL-1 would not be a good example but the 67 435HP would be a great example! Probably a hundred or more have been faked and certified NCRS Top Flight.

What really is the difference?

JR

Joe:

The way I see it NCRS has chosen to enforce the word Restoration. It's NOT a restoration if it wasn't born a 435.

(An owner of a '67 435 red/red told me the judges were thrilled to see that his was an original; must be a lot of clones. Judging an obvious clone must be tough on the judges, and that just ain't fair. Good move, NCRS.)

Bill

[Harry S.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

   /ˌrɛstəˈreɪʃən/ Show Spelled[res-tuh-rey-shuhn] Show IPA
noun 1. the act of restoring; renewal, revival, or reestablishment.

2. the state or fact of being restored.

3. a return of something to a former, original, normal, or unimpaired condition.

4. restitution of something taken away or lost.

5. something that is restored, as by renovating.

[Roy S.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Roy, I own a '65 that has rare options. I have submitted it for flight judging at the upcoming National convention. What sort of documentation will I need for my red/red L76 A/C Coupe?
-Clark

[Roy S.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Mark,

No offense taken. My first language is English too. I have always been a VERY literal individual when it comes to words. No, I obviously didn't get the jest of your post, my apologies. I see myself as a rookie in this 'hobby', not seasoned by the experience and wisdom gained by you and others from judging and assisting others with these cars. So, my perceptions will probably change with time.

However, I think it is wrong for us to believe that the awards presented do not authenticate, certify, verify, acknowledge, (pick the word that suits you) that a particular car is what it is when presented and awarded with a "Top Flight", "Survivor etc., to many many folks in the automotive world. I know that this part of the discussion has diverged from the OP's question, sorry!!

EDIT: I simply think it wrong that one member could be held to a higher standard of proof than another.
Dan

Dan, It is my opinion one memebr is not, any member that presents three of two for judging will have to meet that standard so we are all held to it.

[Michael J.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

All very interesting discussions here. In some ways I see why BG went to the "declared" NOM criteria and I do wish NCRS would consider it as well, way too much incentive out there for Corvette clones, counterfeits, or whatever you want to call them. Having been a Mopar and Mustang/Shelby judge in my previous life, both those car companies made it much easier on the judges than Chevy since so much info is in the VIN. Very hard to fake, clone, counterfeit those cars, unless you change the VIN and that is a severe felony in all states and federal law too.

[Tyler T.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

NCRS does have a venue for recognizing unique/singular cars (American Heritage). Since they are not in the true sense a 'showroom' vehicle the owner is tasked with providing the documentation that supports his contention of how the car was produced. Having a car that is an engineering prototype (1988 King of The Hill prototype(ZR-1)) and wanting NCRS recognition I presented the car with documentation at National and it recieved the American Heritage award, I could not have done this without extensive documentation which was revied by knowledgeable individuals. I guess the most notable cars of this type was the 6 SR-1s produced in 1956. It took 10 years for the documention to surface on those car that proved they were indeed 'showroom' vehicles and were eligble for Filght judging, before the documentation was found they were classified as 'American Heritage' vehicles. In addition to proving they were indeed a production vehicle the judging manual had to be changed to reflect the 'showroom' options expected to be on the cars. This is such a unique vehicle that documentation should be provided to legimitize the vehicle.

Tyler