NCRS and the clones

[Michael W.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

When there are at least two variations of supporting docs floating around, you really have to question the heritage. That has disqualified a car or two from judging at a couple of organizations.

Thanks to Roy, Terry and yourself for chiming in. As the concept of providing docs for Flight Judging activities might be unfamiliar to some of us new(er) guys, this post has great value. Possibly worth a page or two of review in the Driveline?

[Michael H.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Remember this is supposed to be fun. I think the older guys that have been around the hobby 30 or more years have a better understanding where we came from & maybe because we didn't need to spend 60,000,100,0000 or more on a Corvette.
KEN

Kenneth,

Well said. I think all of the major Corvette organizations need to step back and take a good look at what's happening. what it's turning into.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Kenneth,

Well said. I think all of the major Corvette organizations need to step back and take a good look at what's happening. what it's turning into.

THANKS MIKE
I really don't think or blame any organiztion,Corvette dealer or auction house. It was the perfect storm in the 80's & 90's for cars built before 1975. All of us have something to do with it. As Pogo said "We have met the enemey & he is us" The members drive the clubs & buyers drive the car prices,parts & restoration costs. I think it might be like the housing market some got cought in the hype with there pants down. Just a rant from a old retired man.

KEN

[Joe R.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Fellas, it's this way and we don't have to like it, but we need to accept the fact that all of us that judge Corvettes have been duped at one time or another. Is the only fun in judging, catching the crooks??? NO!

We are guaranteed that as simple as GM made these cars there is no holograms, codes or magnetic strips on these Corvettes to identify them. Just remember that some of the finest works of art in the world have fooled the experts after careful study of xrays and analysis of paint and canvas.

As a matter of fact, block stamps, trim tags, SN plates as well as frame numbers are duplicated and cloned better than the originals.

Lets face facts! There are people in the hobby that are better than GM at duplicating paperwork and stamping engines and trim tags!!!

To quote a fellow in Illinois: "Corvettes are not restored like they were, they are restored the way we wished they were!"

JR

[William F.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

With all the replies in this thread, I think it shows a need for discussion and possibly reevaluation. By the way, we all have opinions as well as certin anatomical parts; so , don't really feel it's called for for one membeer to suggest to another if he doesn't agree with him "to play golf." I very much respect the judging process, just think it is important to recognize real cars vs. clones.It's as much about giving deserved credit and meaning to the flight awards to members who play by the rules as it is catching the crooks. I see the point about how far we go with originality as long as replaced pat has correct casting nos. and , when appropriate, dates. IMHO, I'd even allow some non original parts, such as ignition system upgrades(quit checking for electronic triggers instead of points, for example), but I continue to believe cars with their original engine show be placed in a much higher category than those with replacements/restamps. Know it's harder and harder to tell, but I hope we can come up with some reliable but practical ways to differentiate, as has been suggested in other posts.

[Michael J.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

I would agree Mr. Ford. And as those of us who joined the hobby later in life, enjoy it a great deal, like the judging and learn so much, we should also not be turned into lepers because in our ignorance when we started we did know the difference between "matching numbers" and the "real deal" and thus were fooled by certain dealers.

[Lyndon S.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

I do not know where you and others get off on belittling Barrett Jackson. Sure there are counterfeit cars sold there and at Mecum's, Silver, RM,



Gooding,
I didn't see anywhere that Dick said anything about you saying anything about someone on here.
KEN

[Kenneth B.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

With all the replies in this thread, I think it shows a need for discussion and possibly reevaluation. By the way, we all have opinions as well as certin anatomical parts; so , don't really feel it's called for for one membeer to suggest to another if he doesn't agree with him "to play golf." I very much respect the judging process, just think it is important to recognize real cars vs. clones.It's as much about giving deserved credit and meaning to the flight awards to members who play by the rules as it is catching the crooks. I see the point about how far we go with originality as long as replaced pat has correct casting nos. and , when appropriate, dates. IMHO, I'd even allow some non original parts, such as ignition system upgrades(quit checking for electronic triggers instead of points, for example), but I continue to believe cars with their original engine show be placed in a much higher category than those with replacements/restamps. Know it's harder and harder to tell, but I hope we can come up with some reliable but practical ways to differentiate, as has been suggested in other posts.

BILL
Please reread my post & the others! I only said that if you need more frustration to play golf not because you don't agree with me. Please don't put words on here that i didn.t post. THANKS
As I have said before. Those that get it no explation is needed & for those that don.t none is possable. Could you tell us who would play God on origional & why does it matter so much to you. Me think that you do protest too much

[Lyndon S.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Since Lyndon started this I have to ask him if he is considering "upgrading" his 1971 and if that is the basis of his questions?[/QUOTE]

[William F.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Think what you want.I read your and all the other posts. Do we want to accept clones and restamps or not?I don't.

[Michael J.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Think what you want.I read your and all the other posts. Do we want to accept clones and restamps or not?I don't.

Got news for you, NCRS is and always has "accepted" restamps and NOM cars, as well as ones with altered and replaced trim tags. They have all been judged and marked down accordingly, so what's the big deal now?

[Dick W.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Since Lyndon started this I have to ask him if he is considering "upgrading" his 1971 and if that is the basis of his questions?

do you guys have any idea how many chicken farms there are in rural east Texas. Man I am still cleaning chicken poo off me boots.

[/QUOTE]

I do, I worked for a poultry company for well over twenty years, worked in Center, San Augustine, Hemphill, Nacodoches, Patroon,Shelbyville,etc. You can see my former office on Google Earth at 31

[G A.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Dan,

I am sure Roy will add his answer, but I think a read of this page will help you understand what NCRS "says."

https://www.ncrs.org/awards.html

There is also a lot of pages in the NCRS Judging Reference Manual

Thanks Terry! Your right, I do need to educate myself more about this topic. Not being a guy that fancies chasing points, I have neglected this part of the hobby.

The NCRS to me, is an irreplaceable asset, and veritable cornucopia of knowledge. I do appreciate all of the resources I am privileged to access with my membership. The organization is not perfect, only God can check that box, but it is certainly interested in doing the best possible job given the resources available to it. I will spend some time on the info you have given me.

Dan

[Pat M.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Doesn't BG "certify" Vettes? If so, how does it deal with problems, legal and otherwise, associated with those opinions?

[Dick W.]

Re: NCRS and the clones

Doesn't BG "certify" Vettes? If so, how does it deal with problems, legal and otherwise, associated with those opinions?

Gold Certfied means that a Corvette has been "preserved in" or "restored to" within 95% of the way it appeared when it left the factory...no better, no worse, no different

A play on words